Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 338 posts

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#71

Post by jeiting »

scarface74 wrote: post #56
evan_ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they have to spend a month building a whole new iPhone-first onboarding flow and updating their entire app to accept a different subscription provider? Who's to say that if they spend that hundreds of thousands of dollars of developer time Apple won't just knock them down for some other imagined infraction?

Hundreds of thousands of dollars to create in app subscriptions? There are many indy developers that have done that as a one man operation.

it sucks pretty bad though

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#72

Post by justrudd »

htunnicliff wrote: post #22
dilly_li wrote: post #11

The news I read yesterday [0] (from Hey's founder?) painted Apple as the obvious villain. Today's news (the above link) shows a slightly differnet picture. > "The Hey Email app is marketed as an email app on the App Store, but when users download your app, it does not work," Apple said in a letter to Basecamp CEO Jason Fried on Thursday. "Users cannot use the app to access email or perform any useful function until a…

This is how the Netflix app works.

How so? I'm looking at the Netflix app in the App store right now and it offers in app purchases. I don't have to sign up before using it. I can sign up in the app (I'm assuming based on this screenshot from the App Store - https://imgur.com/a/t6AqwEx). I already have an account. Not going to jump through hoops to try it out.

Edited: added screenshot

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#73

Post by NotSammyHagar »

Hamuko wrote: post #51
terracatta wrote: post #26

This letter is actually astonishing. In this letter Apple: * Chastises them for making free apps in the past * Reminds them they've had to distribute their apps for free (almost as if they should be grateful and now give them some money) * States they would accept their app if it provided unrelated functionality or access to competitor products (who are oddly not subject to the same rules). * Implies that everyone is…

> Reminds they've had to distribute their apps for free Apple has never had to distribute any application for free since you need to pay $99 per year to have anything listed on the App Store.

but that $99 charge is really a way to reduce trolls and scams. For regular us devs it almost meaningless, it blocks poor people in the west and third world devs.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#74

Post by Traster »

scarface74 wrote: post #37
Traster wrote: post #5

I don't think picking a fight with Apple as a PR strategy is a good move. The rules on the app store are very clear, if you're charging a subscription for functionality you're providing through an iOS app, that subscription must be available through Apple's payment system. I know people don't like that, but it's not unexpected. So given that Hey knew the rules, it seems a bit manipulative for them to submit their app…

It is very unclear. The rule has been that you cannot advertise that it requires a subscription or provide a link. There are literally a dozen apps that I am personally aware of that require subscriptions and don’t allow in app subscriptions. - Netflix - Sling TV - ATT Now (DirecTVNow) - ACloudGuru - Kindle - Youtube TV - Spotify - Microsoft Office - Hulu Live TV (not regular Hulu)

Again, the rules are clear, readers are a specific exemption. I would say that Microsoft Office stands out in tht list as the only thing delivery functionality not content - but I don't know the details of that app.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#75

Post by pmontra »

scarface74 wrote: post #37
Traster wrote: post #5

I don't think picking a fight with Apple as a PR strategy is a good move. The rules on the app store are very clear, if you're charging a subscription for functionality you're providing through an iOS app, that subscription must be available through Apple's payment system. I know people don't like that, but it's not unexpected. So given that Hey knew the rules, it seems a bit manipulative for them to submit their app…

It is very unclear. The rule has been that you cannot advertise that it requires a subscription or provide a link. There are literally a dozen apps that I am personally aware of that require subscriptions and don’t allow in app subscriptions. - Netflix - Sling TV - ATT Now (DirecTVNow) - ACloudGuru - Kindle - Youtube TV - Spotify - Microsoft Office - Hulu Live TV (not regular Hulu)

Add every single traditional bank to the list. If you don't have an existing contract with a bank you can download their app but you won't get past the login screen.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#76

Post by terracatta »

Hamuko wrote: post #63
terracatta wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same is done by restaurants for things like Uber Eat/Postmate: they have their prices on their menu, and a marked-up price on these platforms I do not believe Apple's tax for IAP applies for physical goods or services. Only digital products or goods. If those companies are charging more, it might be for another reason. > 3.1.5 Physical Goods and Services Outside of the App: If your app enables people to purchas…

> I do not believe Apple's tax for IAP applies for physical goods or services. Only digital products or goods. If those companies are charging more, it might be for another reason. Food delivery apps have their own commissions.

Source? I believe you, but I am interested in learning more and I'm not finding anything. Would love to read if you have a link handy.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#77

Post by scarface74 »

evan_ wrote: post #61
scarface74 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars to create in app subscriptions? There are many indy developers that have done that as a one man operation.

I said dollars, not hours. I stand by that estimate. Right now there's no mobile-first onboarding flow. That's a completely new thing they'll have to build. They'll also need to update all of their code that checks subscriptions, handles dunning, etc., to now work with multiple billing providers. So yeah, it's going to take a lot of time, which is a lot of dollars.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars to do in app purchases. As an example, do you really think Marco Arment - sole creator of Instapaper before he sold it, The Magazine, and now Overcast spent “hundreds of thousands of dollars” just to create in app purchases?

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#78

Post by lern_too_spel »

Despegar wrote: post #68
scarface74 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very unclear. The rule has been that you cannot advertise that it requires a subscription or provide a link. There are literally a dozen apps that I am personally aware of that require subscriptions and don’t allow in app subscriptions. - Netflix - Sling TV - ATT Now (DirecTVNow) - ACloudGuru - Kindle - Youtube TV - Spotify - Microsoft Office - Hulu Live TV (not regular Hulu)

They have a specific section in the rules for "Reader" apps like Netflix and Spotify. It's not unclear, it's been there since 2018.

How about Gmail or Yahoo! Mail?

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#79

Post by basch »

Despegar wrote: post #68
scarface74 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very unclear. The rule has been that you cannot advertise that it requires a subscription or provide a link. There are literally a dozen apps that I am personally aware of that require subscriptions and don’t allow in app subscriptions. - Netflix - Sling TV - ATT Now (DirecTVNow) - ACloudGuru - Kindle - Youtube TV - Spotify - Microsoft Office - Hulu Live TV (not regular Hulu)

They have a specific section in the rules for "Reader" apps like Netflix and Spotify. It's not unclear, it's been there since 2018.

How is "reading my email from the hey server" different from "reading a video from the netflix server"?

Neither app functions without a separate, non apple subscription. The main criticism of Hey, from apples perspective, is that the app doesnt just work when you download it, but the same applies to netflix.

I personally think Hey could get around it by adding some other kind of feature to the app, like a way to read their blog. When it opens on IOS you have a "sign in" or "continue with the free version" and the free version aggregates basecamp marketing copies, as long as that free version isnt just a webview, but some enhanced native experience.

Can they also advertise the cost of their service, through the applepay experience, as "x+30% apple tax"?

With how much of their app is server side (nearly all of it, minus the translation from HTML to native,) I wonder how much they can get away with, without updating the client.

The other interesting thing about this dynamic is, Apple shipped Leopard with Ruby on Rails, which Basecamp created. So in the past, Apple took Basecamp's open source code to make OSX more valuable, but now when Basecamp wants to benefits its users, at no real cost to Apple, Apple says "not without paying us our cut." Maybe not morally wrong, but at least stinks of bad karma.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#80

Post by gruez »

ProAm wrote: post #6
Traster wrote: post #5

I don't think picking a fight with Apple as a PR strategy is a good move. The rules on the app store are very clear, if you're charging a subscription for functionality you're providing through an iOS app, that subscription must be available through Apple's payment system. I know people don't like that, but it's not unexpected. So given that Hey knew the rules, it seems a bit manipulative for them to submit their app…

That's fine, let me install software without going to the App store.

You've been able to do that for a while now. Without a paid developer account you can self-sign any app you want to run for 7 days. With a paid developer account you can install whatever private apps you want.
Post reply on HN