Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Return of the 90s Web

mxb.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 357 posts

Re: The Return of the 90s Web

#31

Post by Karrot_Kream »

dndvr wrote: post #24
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's if you're making an application, sure, but on the web I view all sorts of sites and most of them are just styled text containers, maybe with an optional way to mutate things. HN, Reddit, News, recipes, forums, galleries, these are things I regularly consume that don't need APIs to return content. For applications, like Facebook, it's understandable, but if you don't spend all of your time in Social Media, then…

You must use old.reddit.com

On mobile I just use a client that requests data from the API and renders it for me. On desktop, yes, for now, but I'm in the process of writing views that load faster and don't require a browser.

Re: The Return of the 90s Web

#32

Post by gpapilion »

untog wrote: post #18
JohnBooty wrote: post #15

I can't wait for server-side rendering to take its place in the sun again. There are many use cases for which a client-side framework like React is eesential. But I feel the vast majority of use cases on the web would be better off with server-side rendering. And... There are issues of ethics here. You are kidding yourself to an extent when you say that you are building a "client-side web app." It is essentially an a…

I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying and the core problem is that we somehow decided there was one correct way to make a web site, and that was to use React. Are you creating a complex webapp? Use React. Go nuts! But are you making a mostly static page (blog, marketing site, whatever)? Then don't use React. It adds entirely unnecessary bloat and complication.

The industry has gone back and forth here forever between thick and thin clients, and I view this as an extension. Largely we all use thick clients now (PCs, phones, and things with way too much compute power), and the move to chrome or chromium based browsers made the behavior predictable. The pendulum swinging back is really an acknowledgement that the advantages provided client side rendering, don't always outweigh the networking costs. Data visualization is one of these areas I wonder if the javascript methods provide a real advantage vs server side rendering.

Re: The Return of the 90s Web

#34

Post by sidpatil »

binarytox1n wrote: post #23
dewey wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have fond memories of creating images with Grunge fonts in some pirated copy of Photoshop and then positioning them with HTML tables and Dreamweaver.

This is how I learned web development. Don't forget photoshopping the glossiest buttons possible. Not sure if that fad was before or after the grunge.

Gloss was a trend in the mid 2000s, if I remember correctly—around the same time that AJAX started becoming really popular

Re: The Return of the 90s Web

#35

Post by duxup »

waltbosz wrote: post #21

What I miss most from the early days of the Internet is the content. It was all created with love. My theory is that the high barrier to entry of online publishing kept all but the most determined people from creating content. As a result, the little content that was out there was usually good. With today's monetized blogs, it is often content for content's sake. People don't try, or they write about topics which the…

I remember visiting big corporate websites and there was always a little corner for the 'webmaster' often with a photo of the server the site was running on... or a cat... or something like that.

Geocities was a beautiful mess as ... it was just folks trying to figure out HTML and post silly stuff, but it was genuine.

Re: The Return of the 90s Web

#36

Post by JohnBooty »

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #9

Maybe I'm missing something, the article isn't very clear. One of the reasons why we have front end apps pulling from an API is because it allows for interoperability. The same API that serves data to the web browser can serve that data to mobile apps and to third parties as well. The idea of bringing HTML rendering back on to the server just doesn't seem useful to me.

    One of the reasons why we have front end apps pulling
    from an API is because it allows for interoperability.

    The same API that serves data to the web browser can 
    serve that data to mobile apps and to third parties as well.
I agree with the benefit of API interoperability, but I'd call that orthogonal to server-side rendering. Your server-side web app could be just another consumer of that repurposable API.

    The idea of bringing HTML rendering back on to the server 
    just doesn't seem useful to me.
It's a streamlined developer workflow, for one. You have one renderer, not an infinite amount of client-side renderers. Easier one-stop-shopping debugging. And in reality, I feel that the promised performance gains of client-side rendering never truly materialized for many use cases.

For projects involving small teams and non-trivial amounts, this is a boon. Any backend dev can, at least, write code to spit out some semantically correct HTML. Somebody is going to need to work on the UI/UX at some point but not necessarily full-time.

Contrast with a client-side rendering approach. If there is any significant amount of backend engineering behind the site (there isn't always, of course) now you have two apps with two divergent skillsets and more often than not, you need a minimum of two developers.

Re: The Return of the 90s Web

#37

Post by chrisjarvis »

mtgp1000 wrote: post #28
waltbosz wrote: post #21

What I miss most from the early days of the Internet is the content. It was all created with love. My theory is that the high barrier to entry of online publishing kept all but the most determined people from creating content. As a result, the little content that was out there was usually good. With today's monetized blogs, it is often content for content's sake. People don't try, or they write about topics which the…

I think what you're saying about reduced barriers to entry has lowered the standard of all popular media. It used to be expensive to publish anything - especially the further back in time you go. So classics for example typically represent particularly bright writers, as having something published before the printing press, and widely disseminated, was simply unlikely to happen. But today anyone can create an account…

The secondary effect you mention is absolutely the case. There is unlimited media and unlimited platforms on which to consume it. "Content" is truly a commodity now. I would like to try to make watching movies/tv a special thing again for myself, as opposed to little more than background noise. I think this will require careful curation and research, rather than just trusting an algorithm.

Re: The Return of the 90s Web

#38

Post by kickscondor »

waltbosz wrote: post #21

What I miss most from the early days of the Internet is the content. It was all created with love. My theory is that the high barrier to entry of online publishing kept all but the most determined people from creating content. As a result, the little content that was out there was usually good. With today's monetized blogs, it is often content for content's sake. People don't try, or they write about topics which the…

People are still creating great stuff along these lines - you just won't find it through Google or Facebook or most of Reddit. Complex, interesting hypertext creations and web sites are still everywhere. But try typing "interesting hypertext" into Google or Facebook and see where it gets you. You can't search for something that's off the beaten track.

This is where directories come back in. Check some of these out:

* https://marijnflorence.neocities.org/linkroll/

* https://neonaut.neocities.org/directory/

* https://webring.xxiivv.com/ (which led me to this gem: https://dreamwiki.sixey.es/)

Competing with Google in search has become an insurmountable task. Personal directories attack from the opposite direction (human curation, no algorithm) in a way that actually puts Google far behind. It's kind of exciting and unexpected.

Re: The Return of the 90s Web

#39

Post by kickscondor »

mtgp1000 wrote: post #28
waltbosz wrote: post #21

What I miss most from the early days of the Internet is the content. It was all created with love. My theory is that the high barrier to entry of online publishing kept all but the most determined people from creating content. As a result, the little content that was out there was usually good. With today's monetized blogs, it is often content for content's sake. People don't try, or they write about topics which the…

I think what you're saying about reduced barriers to entry has lowered the standard of all popular media. It used to be expensive to publish anything - especially the further back in time you go. So classics for example typically represent particularly bright writers, as having something published before the printing press, and widely disseminated, was simply unlikely to happen. But today anyone can create an account…

I don't quite follow - if low quality media is everywhere, doesn't high quality media stand out?

Perhaps you're saying that so much low quality media drowns out the high quality media - such that it can't be found. The ratio is off, right?

Re: The Return of the 90s Web

#40

Post by deadbunny »

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #9

Maybe I'm missing something, the article isn't very clear. One of the reasons why we have front end apps pulling from an API is because it allows for interoperability. The same API that serves data to the web browser can serve that data to mobile apps and to third parties as well. The idea of bringing HTML rendering back on to the server just doesn't seem useful to me.

Maybe I'm being dumb (I'm a sysadmin, not a developer) but wouldn't you just shift those API calls to the server rendering the page rather than the browser?
Post reply on HN