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Advice to Young Web Developers

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Re: Advice to Young Web Developers

#51

Post by heavyset_go »

CM30 wrote: post #18

Seems like a list of every web development ideal that gets upvoted on Hacker News. Still, I think the list can pretty much condensed down to one point: Use whatever technology is appropriate for this site or web app. Because a lot of developers seem to have a 'when all you have is a hammer' attitude towards web development. They learn React/Vue/Angular/whatever, then seemingly decide everything they will ever build w…

> They learn React/Vue/Angular/whatever, then seemingly decide everything they will ever build will use that framework, regardless of whether it's the right tool for the job.

At least where I live, small businesses contract with agencies that develop React sites for them, and suddenly these non-IT companies are owners of expensive and hard to maintain websites that they don't, and shouldn't need to, know the first thing about maintaining. No one wants to work with the projects, because they were written in, say 2015 React, back when React used X feature that isn't cool anymore, so it gets rewritten by another agency, and so on.

Meanwhile, WordPress on a managed host or a static site would suit those businesses just fine. Then, they wouldn't have trouble hiring to maintain it, or could even maintain it themselves.

If you work for an agency or you're freelancing, please stop burdening small businesses like this.

Re: Advice to Young Web Developers

#52

Post by gwbas1c »

lucasmullens wrote: post #33

> To the developer, “isomorphic” code breaks down the barrier between client and server. To a malicious client, it means they have control over the server too. Huh? I don't follow this. Sharing some helpful util functions between the frontend and backend doesn't allow malicious clients to control your server.

Think of transpilers like GWT, where you write java that's converted to in-browser Javascript; or the current trend of server-side Javascript.

(For what it's worth, both are really really cool technologies!)

Edit: But I also suspect this relates to a temptation to write browser-side Javascript without thinking about the server-side or database; IE, browser-side Javascript that just loads objects willy-nilly via fetch / AJAX and creating lots of round trips.

Re: Advice to Young Web Developers

#53

Post by gwbas1c »

> The web is built around server-side rendering.

Grr... I read through the EmberJS tutorial and thought everything was very cool; only to find out that the whole thing is rendered with in-browser Javascript.

Re: Advice to Young Web Developers

#54

Post by chipotle_coyote »

osrec wrote: post #16
austincheney wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most common reasons for building a SPA: * That is the design pattern dictated by your large framework. * Maintaining state is absurdly simple, but it requires original code if not using a big framework. * The browser provides a simple standard API for interacting with HTML, but your framework provides abstractions you didn’t know you could live without. That’s it. Developers twist themselves in knots trying to qu…

Another big reason is that developers want to deliver a specific user experience that is simply not possible with the default page loading functionality of most browsers.

That’s arguably the best reason to develop an SPA. But I don’t think the linked article is arguing against that as much as arguing against using “SPA think” in places where the user experience really doesn’t require it. There are web sites which are basically magazines/blogs whose reading functionality relies on JavaScript. Building a web site like it’s an app may give some advantages to the developers, but it’s almost always a slower, and sometimes more fragile, experience compared to just delivering HTML.

Re: Advice to Young Web Developers

#55

Post by chipotle_coyote »

osrec wrote: post #15
timw4mail wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SPAs are an anti-pattern. Let's rebuild html rendering, navigation history, forms, etc, all with Javascript, because it's the hip thing to do.

The way in which we consume and deliver via internet has moved on from the early days of the web. It's no longer just text, images and links. There's much more to it now, and SPAs are a reasonable step forward to providing richer experiences online with more functionality. Not sure you could ever call them an anti-pattern.

How would the site we’re communicating on right now be improved if it were rebuilt as an SPA?

Re: Advice to Young Web Developers

#57

Post by tobr »

mroche wrote: post #5

> Browsers change. Relying on browser-specific behavior means you’re relying on that one browser at that one point in time. Code to the standard, and test everywhere. I wish this was listed at the top of the list, in the middle, and at the end. It’s super annoying when a site or application isn’t “supported” because it wasn’t tested in a separate browser (i.e. non-Chrome browsers). I know it’s not always easy with a…

It’s good advice (like most of the list!) but I’m not sure expecting a beginner[1] to “code to the standard” is realistic. The standard (i.e the spec) isn’t beginner-friendly. You learn by trying things out and seeing what happens.

1: Assuming they meant for the advice to apply to beginners rather than young developers - what age they are seems irrelevant.

Re: Advice to Young Web Developers

#58

Post by abjKT26nO8 »

non-entity wrote: post #17
mroche wrote: post #5

> Browsers change. Relying on browser-specific behavior means you’re relying on that one browser at that one point in time. Code to the standard, and test everywhere. I wish this was listed at the top of the list, in the middle, and at the end. It’s super annoying when a site or application isn’t “supported” because it wasn’t tested in a separate browser (i.e. non-Chrome browsers). I know it’s not always easy with a…

Nothing pisses me off like getting a message that some website only supports Chrome in 2020

At work we're forced to use a service for exchanging files where uploading a file is only possible in Chrome, but downloading a file is sometimes only possible in Firefox. Pinnacle of UX.

Re: Advice to Young Web Developers

#60

Post by Nextgrid »

yagodragon wrote: post #44
timw4mail wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SPAs are an anti-pattern. Let's rebuild html rendering, navigation history, forms, etc, all with Javascript, because it's the hip thing to do.

I also love when i visit a website with a simple markup and minimal js. Not everything should be a react/graphql isomorphic SPA, but have you checked NotionHQ[0]? The whole thing is a single page react app. People use it to build wikis, manage projects and even create blogs and job postings. All that using client-side rendering. It doesn't load as fast as hackernews but most people seem to love it either way. [0] htt…

I’ve had the displeasure to use this once at a client and I was amazed that they managed to make text editing lag.
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