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Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

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Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#241

Post by mikestew »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #215
mikestew wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is perfectly reasonable to ask why they facilitated immoral actions. Are you seriously proposing to give the presenter for the Core Audio session grief over this? IMO, that's just being a jackass "because purity". Or something; I'm at a loss to truly categorize such behavior.

Off topic, but do you know if there's actually going to be a CoreAudio session? I've been doing a ton of reading on it over the past year and I'd love to tune in.

Without looking at the schedule, I cannot say. I simply typed the first “Core” framework that came to mind at the moment.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#242

Post by dwaite »

bduerst wrote: post #205
cwhiz wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a minority player in every single market in the world, including the US. You can't have monopolistic behavior without a monopoly. You can't be a monopoly if you are not the market leader. People want this to be a legal issue but it's just a market issue. If people don't like these policies they shouldn't buy Apple products or release apps on Apple devices.

>You can't have monopolistic behavior without a monopoly This is wrong. Monopolistic behavior is anti-competitive behavior that doesn't require having a market monopoly. Think of it as a pattern of behavior that moves you towards having a monopoly.

Which market would Apple be moving towards having a monopoly in, in the App Store policy case?

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#243

Post by fortytw2 »

goopthink wrote: post #203
SkyBelow wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't sound right, so let me try to form an example to get at what is the issue I'm seeing. Let X be "It is okay for me to ban my customers from using discounts." Let not X be "It is okay for me to use discounts offered by another restaurant." This doesn't feel like a particularly contradictory situation. Maybe the issue is that we skipped a few too many steps, because there isn't anything particularly illegal…

Sounds like the issue is, "I created a set of rules and ban users who try to bypass them, but I recognize how bogus/harmful to a business those rules are because I do my utmost best to bypass those exact same rules when I'm in the position of a user on someone else's platform." The contradiction is in trying to support the rules with one hand while resorting to the same bypassing tactics they decry when they're in th…

I'm pretty sure google allows you to do this though, so Apple isn't bypassing any "rules" on android.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#244

Post by selykg »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #214
selykg wrote: post #72

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around why this is such a huge deal to people. Opinions are fine, everyone can have one but I always see Apple's payment options as a massive win as a consumer. 1. Subscriptions are easily monitored from a single page. 2. Before subscriptions renew I get emailed, not all services do this, shame on those that do not and a magic renewal transaction goes through without not…

> as a user I would NEVER use something other than Apple's payment solution in the App Store Would you choose to pay Hey's subscription $142/year to be able to pay on the App Store, instead of $100/year paying on the web? Or if it was available, would you pay Adobe's Creative Cloud for $906/year in the App Store or $636 on the web? I'd choose to pay slightly more for the convenience for very small subscriptions too.…

I would choose not to use the app unless there was very clearly value for the cost.

If a service was literally doing as you say, charging more through Apple's App Store vs their site, I would choose not to use that app. At all.

Part of the real appeal is the pro-consumer parts of the App Store. Like I said, being informed before renewal is something that very few services do but Apple does for any subscription.

Edit: to be clear, I think even $99 is too expensive for Hey.com. This is my opinion. Some people may find value there, but I don't think Hey does enough to justify being more expensive than Fastmail (which also has important features, to me, that Hey doesn't).

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#245

Post by KillerDiller »

spullara wrote: post #218
mkozlows wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple literally puts technical measures in place to ensure that it's 100% impossible to download outside software.

Anyone could get a developer account and compile the code and deploy it to their phone if the app owner released the source code.

This could be a crucial argument in that it distinguishes between the essential freedom of device owners to decide what software to run, and the freedom of device manufacturers to decide which apps to sell in their stores and at what terms (still subject to anti-trust laws).

Unfortunately, the $99 annual fee per developer account nullifies any possible mass-market sideloading possibilities. (Imagine what could happen if sideloading apps from source was free just highly impractical, and HEY turned their rage into a free Apple developer account management & sideloading SaaS offering.)

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#246

Post by jayp1418 »

mattl wrote: post #78
morganvachon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of Purism, the company behind the Librem phone, but it's fairly capable hardware for the price. The PinePhone is arguably even better hardware for the money, but it isn't quite ready for prime time on the software side. Gone are the days where a $300+ device is too weak or slow to use daily. A better tactic would be to purchase one of the few Android devices that are fully compatible with either Replica…

An iPhone SE is $400. I know Apple have a lot more R&D money than Purism, but it doesn't even feel comparable. I don't want to run Android. If anything I'd have two phones: an iPhone and a Pinephone.

Makes sense or have nokia feature phone with kaios and pinephone

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#247

Post by fastest963 »

zaroth wrote: post #236

This looks like the free market at work to me. Google policy explicitly permits apps like Apple Music to charge for subscriptions outside the App Store and for them to not allow taking subscription payment through the App Store. Apple has a similar policy for “Reader” apps on their own App Store for apps which are used to access content that you subscribe to, which Apple reasons that “Hey” does not qualify for. That’…

Spotify definitely pays 30%. See https://timetoplayfair.com/timeline/

I assume that Hulu also pays the same 30%.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#248

Post by [deleted] »

gamblor956 wrote: post #70
snowwrestler wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously if Apple owns one platform, and Google owns the other platform, it is not actually the same situation. The law does not require that Google and Apple run their online stores the same way, or that Apple interact with Google's store the same way they choose to run their own store. In fact it's arguable that a free marketplace encourages and depends on different companies taking different approaches to meet cu…

Analogous != same. It means its very similar factually. The law does not require that Google and Apple run their online stores the same way, or that Apple interact with Google's store the same way they choose to run their own store. That's correct. But the law does require them to run the stores in a way that does not violate antitrust laws. Apple is violating antitrust laws by forcing companies to use Apple Pay as a…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#249

Post by TAForObvReasons »

dwaite wrote: post #228
gamblor956 wrote: post #30

Note to the people asking why this matters: Legally, if you take a position in federal court on X (i.e., that it's okay to ban external transactions by apps using your app store), and you are found to be doing not-X in an analogous situation (i.e., setting up external transactions to avoid fees in your competitors' app store), the court can rule against you in the original case...and then sanction you and your lawyer…

I fail to understand this position. Apple Music is in the same position as say Spotify on Google's platform as a third party media service. Is the implication that they should operate differently or be held to a different standard than Spotify? I don't believe Apple has argued that collecting alternate payments in-app would be an undesirable for third party developers on the App Store - just that they don't wish to s…

Apple is both the developer of Apple Music and the operator of the iOS App Store.

Apple's Apple Music app is using a tactic on the Google App Store, while Apple's iOS App Store is blocking certain third parties from doing the same.

The implication isn't "Apple Music should be barred" but rather "If Apple is working around the 30% cut in other companies' walled gardens, maybe they shouldn't be blocking apps that try to do the same to Apple's 30% cut in Apple's iOS store"

This is showing up today because of Hey's rejection (https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1272968382329942017 more context)

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