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I don't want a hustler

andrewacove.posterous.com

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Re: I don't want a hustler

#21

Post by andrewacove »

tgriesser wrote: post #13
ktsmith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hustler both describes enterprising go getters and sleaze ball unscrupulous jerks. The problem is which meaning is more prevalent. I can't think of a single person I would describe with the word hustler and mean it in a positive way. I also wouldn't use the word hacker to refer to myself or any of my respected peers outside of technical circles due to its very negative connotations with non technical folk. While the…

I agree with the assessment that both terms come with such differing meanings, that they should probably be avoided in the mainstream for the fear of losing the point in the technicalities. What I took issue with is that the post was in direct response to a piece that outlined exactly what the term hustler meant in the positive sense, then went on to say that they wouldn't want one based on the negative meaning, when…

I may not have been clear enough in explaining it, but my blog post isn't a direct response to Micah's, though I use his post for context. Mine is a response to the people who think they are hustlers (by Micah's definition), promote themselves as such, and are in actuality the type of people I describe. Unfortunately, they significantly outnumber hustlers who hew to the intended definition.

The post is also tinged with some additional dismay at my discovery that some of the hustlers held up in the valley as prime examples of the form have proven themselves to be sleazy as well. One of those people is who I refer to in the sentences about lies.

Re: I don't want a hustler

#23

Post by ktsmith »

tgriesser wrote: post #13
ktsmith wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hustler both describes enterprising go getters and sleaze ball unscrupulous jerks. The problem is which meaning is more prevalent. I can't think of a single person I would describe with the word hustler and mean it in a positive way. I also wouldn't use the word hacker to refer to myself or any of my respected peers outside of technical circles due to its very negative connotations with non technical folk. While the…

I agree with the assessment that both terms come with such differing meanings, that they should probably be avoided in the mainstream for the fear of losing the point in the technicalities. What I took issue with is that the post was in direct response to a piece that outlined exactly what the term hustler meant in the positive sense, then went on to say that they wouldn't want one based on the negative meaning, when…

I think what Andrew ended his post with was really the point:

"I'd love to meet one who fits the intended description, but I imagine the real hustlers avoid the label. I certainly would - if only to avoid being associated with the rest."

I think, and I certainly hope, that Andrew wasn't trying to dismiss or detract from the value of hustlers as described by Micah. I think the entire post was about the choice of language.

From my own perspective, while I greatly appreciated the points Micah made in his essay I felt that the word hustler was being forced onto people for the sole purpose of having a convenient label like "hacker" for the business and pr side of things. That's certainly due to my own preconceived notions and experiences with "hustlers" in the negative sense. I don't think of those amazing business people I've worked with over the years as hustlers, and I'm not sure I have a label that would describe them. I do know that hustler isn't the word I'd use and if I was currently looking for someone like that right now that word wouldn't be used in my search.

Re: I don't want a hustler

#26

Post by rdl »

I actually think I could fill either the hacker or hustler role in most teams, but would prefer to work with one or more other people so I can focus on one or the other role.

"Sales engineers", consultants, and hackers who enjoy building/promoting their own products are probably all some combination of these roles.

Re: I don't want a hustler

#27

Post by jscore »

The problem is that there no hustlers in Bay Area/Nor Cali. The culture's home is New York, and more along East Coast (Miami).

A lot of my friends (in Brooklyn, NY) are hustlers.

Nor Cali and New York basically two opposing cultures.

Hipsters will never be hustlers.

Make no mistake, hustlers may not know how to setup an EC2 instance but they know how to make bank.

(I'm using my definition of hustler, which is someone along the lines of "Naughty" per pg's essays, especially someone who operates in "grey" areas (not illegal).)

Re: I don't want a hustler

#29

Post by baberuth »

Tomato, tomato.

Just splitting hairs about what people call a hustler. this post is just as easily titled "I've met a bunch of shitty hustlers".

Plenty of good "business guy"/"hustler"/"business-minded, action-oriented cofounder"s have just as much trouble finding good engineering talent.

Yes, finding quality people is hard. That's part of the game.

Re: I don't want a hustler

#30

Post by fuzzmeister »

My proposal: stop using the word "hustler". While many people in the startup community have gotten used to the "aggressively active or enterprising person" definition, for most people, the first definition that comes to mind is "a person who lives by stealing or other dishonest means; a thief, pimp, etc."

http://www.answers.com/topic/hustler-slang-term

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