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Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

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Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#41

Post by dsjoerg »

I don't understand why people are putting moral dimensions on this business conflict. If you don't like Apple's platform or business practices, don't use it. All the users and developers are there by choice. Their alternatives were worse.

And Apple didn't make them worse. I was active in the mobile development world starting in 1999. It was awful.

Would I like it if Apple took a lower cut? Sure. I would prefer a 5% cut.

Do I want world's governments coming in and imposing more terms on these markets? No. Businesses respond to the expressed preferences of consumers and other businesses, whereas world governments have, in practice, far weaker accountability mechanisms.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#42

Post by g_p »

archildress wrote: post #35

Given the strong emotions around the topic, I've been a bit afraid to ask this question - is what Apple does really that different than traditional retail? In FMCG there are difficult hurdles to jump over to get on the store shelves. The stores don't have an obligation to put anyone's product on the shelf. They can also module what the cut of the revenue is. I'm not sure I have an opinion on what Apple is doing, but…

I think the difference here is that Apple is the only retailer for someone to install an app onto an iOS device. It prohibits anyone else from setting up a retailer, through policy-based (not technical) restrictions.

You cannot install an app on an iOS device, except from their store. Apple won't let you install an alternative store. Therefore their app store is a monopoly store, and should be regulated as such. (Is the argument being levelled against them.)

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#43

Post by paulgb »

archildress wrote: post #35

Given the strong emotions around the topic, I've been a bit afraid to ask this question - is what Apple does really that different than traditional retail? In FMCG there are difficult hurdles to jump over to get on the store shelves. The stores don't have an obligation to put anyone's product on the shelf. They can also module what the cut of the revenue is. I'm not sure I have an opinion on what Apple is doing, but…

It's not unique in the economy; it's not even unique in the software economy: video game consoles have the business model that they sell the hardware and make money by having a monopoly on the software that runs on them.

The questions are, do we want phones to be like video game consoles with a walled-garden marketplace, or like general purpose computers where the manufacturer does not exert control over the entire software economy. There are arguments for both, but I think the former stifles innovation.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#44

Post by robertlagrant »

tracerbulletx wrote: post #13

People keep writing about businesses like they are surprised they aren't moral entities with consistent moral logic. Businesses take whatever action or position they can to maximize their results. The more power the business has, the more they can leverage that power to get what they want. This should just be the default assumption at this point and we should talk about if that is ok for society, not keep feigning su…

> This should just be the default assumption at this point and we should talk about if that is ok for society, not keep feigning surprise at the offense of the day.

This is almost good, but doesn't take into account the fact that everything is equally like this. The sociology professor who constantly tweets about racial hatred makes their job more prominent. The president who tweets about the Chinese virus engages their base.

It's not just some businesses, because that behaviour of businesses is driven by the fact they're run by people. It's just how some people behave.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#45

Post by mixmastamyk »

rvz wrote: post #25

The roles of arrogance and loophole finding has changed recently. Apple (2020) has become Microsoft (1998) and Microsoft (2020) has become Apple (1998).

There are similarities but Apple never had a ~90% lock on computing infrastructure.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#46

Post by fortran77 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #30

Note to the people asking why this matters: Legally, if you take a position in federal court on X (i.e., that it's okay to ban external transactions by apps using your app store), and you are found to be doing not-X in an analogous situation (i.e., setting up external transactions to avoid fees in your competitors' app store), the court can rule against you in the original case...and then sanction you and your lawyer…

Wouldn't it all depend on the contracts/agreements in place? If Google has a different agreement than Apple, why would the same terms apply?

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#48

Post by jessriedel »

tracerbulletx wrote: post #13

People keep writing about businesses like they are surprised they aren't moral entities with consistent moral logic. Businesses take whatever action or position they can to maximize their results. The more power the business has, the more they can leverage that power to get what they want. This should just be the default assumption at this point and we should talk about if that is ok for society, not keep feigning su…

"People can be moral but businesses are amoral" is not the right summary. Businesses (and governments) are composed of many people, and there's no reason to expect in general that the actions of such a collective are consistent in any sense, not just a moral sense. Businesses and governments frequently undertake sets of actions that cannot even be reconciled as pursuing a consistent set of selfish preferences.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#49

Post by Grimm1 »

tracerbulletx wrote: post #13

People keep writing about businesses like they are surprised they aren't moral entities with consistent moral logic. Businesses take whatever action or position they can to maximize their results. The more power the business has, the more they can leverage that power to get what they want. This should just be the default assumption at this point and we should talk about if that is ok for society, not keep feigning su…

The faulty logic is people proclaiming businesses as a single entity and not made up of a multitude of people with varying moral standards and opinions. We shouldn't be surprised that businesses aren't morally consistent when the people in them sure won't be.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#50

Post by snowwrestler »

gamblor956 wrote: post #30

Note to the people asking why this matters: Legally, if you take a position in federal court on X (i.e., that it's okay to ban external transactions by apps using your app store), and you are found to be doing not-X in an analogous situation (i.e., setting up external transactions to avoid fees in your competitors' app store), the court can rule against you in the original case...and then sanction you and your lawyer…

Obviously if Apple owns one platform, and Google owns the other platform, it is not actually the same situation.

The law does not require that Google and Apple run their online stores the same way, or that Apple interact with Google's store the same way they choose to run their own store.

In fact it's arguable that a free marketplace encourages and depends on different companies taking different approaches to meet customer demands.

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