Question: how much performance overhead is e2e encryption on video? Most people are not on endless cores sitting in liquid helium.
Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
471–480 of 557 posts
Re: Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
Their arguments for not giving it to free accounts was awful and the same trite which has been regurgitated for twenty years. The real reason is they want to be able to hand data over to China / NSA / marketers.
> The other safety issue is related to hosts creating meetings that are meant to facilitate really horrible abuse. These hosts mostly come in from VPNs, using throwaway email addresses, create self-service orgs and host a handful of meetings before creating a new identity. It's honestly the first time I heard this justification - where else did you hear it in the last twenty years? Also do you have some concrete reas…
Twitter has been caught using phone numbers for security purposes / tackling fake accounts in the past for marketing purposes. Zoom has a very dubious history, involving China, lies and a complete lack of security.
As for the same old same old? It hasn't been precisely in that form but criminals have used Facebook, Tor, Email, Discord, YouTube, Usenet, Skype, MySpace, and other technologies / sites to facilitate abuse. This is merely the newest iteration.
Re: Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just curious: Fake news was coined by Trump, so you're agreeing it was a meaningful usage?
Ironically, it was not coined by Trump. https://twitter.com/CraigSilverman/status/522179364767924224 and https://www.theverge.com/2014/10/22/7028983/fake-news-sites-... are good examples of its use pre-Trump. By the time Trump started applying it to actual news outlets, it was already in relatively common use.
It's possible that the term existed before Hillary/Trump but your examples aren't it.
In your examples the word "fake" is used as an adjective to the noun "news site". As in "a fake news site".
"fake news" as it used today is a noun in its own right. As in "that's fake news"
See also "alternative facts".
Re: Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been in the interview loop as of late, and there's been a crazy shift away from Zoom. Almost every video chat I had was using Zoom a couple months back, now everyone is using Google Chat or MS Team Meetings. Now these are small to medium-ish size companies (20-500 people), so maybe it's not a big deal to Zoom's marketing bottom line. But it's definitely a thing.
Is any one choosing Teams for Teams alone and not because of already having a relation with Microsoft? That’s Microsoft’s playbook. People are doing 50-200 person video meetings with Google? Has Meet really improved that much since March/April? That’s not that long ago. Otherwise it seems more like cost is the reason. Not anything relating to quality.
We're using Google Meet, but for the very Microsoftian reason of "it comes with our GSuite"...
While we pay lip service to Zoom's super shitty security stance, we now run a video meeting service where it's trivially easy to click the "turn on captions" button, and see how good a job the world's biggest advertising agency is doing of transcribing all the audio in our most sensitive business WFH calls... :sigh:
(I have my own Jitsi Meet instance running on AWS, but there's me and about four of my tinfoil headwear sporting friends who care enough to bother using it...)
Re: Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
#475Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s like “PC” or “fake news”, it was originally meaningful but got co-opted by people who use it in bad faith.
Just curious: Fake news was coined by Trump, so you're agreeing it was a meaningful usage?
It was not coined by Donald Trump[1][2]:
> Author Sarah Churchwell asserts that it was Woodrow Wilson who popularized the phrase 'fake news' in 1915, although the phrase had been used in the US in the previous century.
> The term actually dates from the late 19th century, when it was used by newspapers and magazines to boast about their own journalistic standards and attack those of their rivals. In 1895, for example, Electricity: A Popular Electrical Journal bragged that “we never copy fake news,” while in 1896 a writer at one San Jose, California, paper excoriated the publisher of another: “It is his habit to indulge in fake news. ... [H]e will make up news when he fails to find it.”
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news#20th_century
[2] https://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/In-a-Word/2019/0726/Su...
Re: Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
#476Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would make a cogent argument to rebuff your straw man, but it's not worth my time if you don't share a priori assumptions with me about E2EE being uncrackable. It's just math. I don't see why the talk of trade-offs even is relevant to the discussion. People will use secure tools with E2EE or they will suffer the consequences of not doing so. Doing illegal things is already illegal. Banning or watering down E2EE so…
Your mistake is bringing a technical argument to a political question. My personal political answer to "how to have end-to-end encryption and prevent its use for child rape" would be to tax the companies which profit from E2EE, and use that money to fund death squads, which livestream dragging child rapists out of their home, anywhere in the world, and beating them to death with truncheons. I'm joking, of course (or…
This is creeping a little close to populist rhetoric. The crimes you've described are obviously awful but angry politics will only lead to knee-jerk solutions.
In which ways do you think it is underfunded?
Re: Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
#477Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The other safety issue is related to hosts creating meetings that are meant to facilitate really horrible abuse. These hosts mostly come in from VPNs, using throwaway email addresses, create self-service orgs and host a handful of meetings before creating a new identity. It's honestly the first time I heard this justification - where else did you hear it in the last twenty years? Also do you have some concrete reas…
Twitter has been caught using phone numbers for security purposes / tackling fake accounts in the past for marketing purposes. Zoom has a very dubious history, involving China, lies and a complete lack of security. As for the same old same old? It hasn't been precisely in that form but criminals have used Facebook, Tor, Email, Discord, YouTube, Usenet, Skype, MySpace, and other technologies / sites to facilitate abus…
"twitter sells phone numbers so Zoom must do the same" - really? Maybe not, because you know, they have actual legitimate revenue that doesn't rely on advertising. So it's not like they have the same incentives...
Also, you seem to acknowledge that there are legitimate concerns/ reasons to NOT offer E2E encryption for free users. Unlike all the other services you mention - Zoom users that care about illegitimate interference in their communications would actually have a way to get E2E encryption. Unlike FB/Youtube/etc, Zoom doesn't need to offer the "free" service in order to exist - it does this as a marketing ploy to get you accustomed to their services. In that sense, withholding functionality from free accounts seems perfectly reasonable?
Re: Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
#478Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There’s plenty of valid arguments against banning strong encryption There are no valid arguments against encryption > And yes, law enforcement eavesdrops for law enforcement purposes Lawful eavesdropping is an oxymoron
Do you think there is no situation where it can be lawful for a law enforcement agency to perform a wiretap?
Yes
Re: Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
#479How many times can a software producer let the end-customer down and still get away with it in 2020?
Re: Zoom to bring end-to-end encryption to all users, including non-paying
#480I find this story arch with Zoom amusing: 1. Pre-COVID Zoom claims it has E2E encryption for everyone. 2. During COVID Zoom grows in popularity, which prompts journalists to learn that the claims that Zoom has E2E encryption are inaccurate. 3. Zoom admits that it never had true E2E encryption, but announces they will develop it and it will only be available for paying customers. 4. Zoom gets another wave of criticism…
Aside: Zoom stock has risen 252% during this time ($67 on Dec 18th 2019 to $236 on Jun 18th 2020).