> making conjoined twins out of young and old mice — such that they share blood and organs
That sent chills down my spine.
Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
51–60 of 108 posts
Re: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
#52Seems like the conspiracy theories that the rich and global elite harvest the blood of the young and innocent to rejuvenate them isn't as false as we once thought... /s Sometimes I wish we had a medical system where whoever wanted to be a test patient for whatever reason could sign on the dotted line once advised of the potential downsides (up to and including death assumedly) so we could advance medical science fast…
Some conspiracy theory, they have a price list. https://www.ambrosiaplasma.com/
this is amazing. how did you find this, and do you know of any other health/longevity tips?
Re: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems kind of unsurprising to me, given dialysis is a thing. Actually, now I'm wondering, could this be a simpler substitute for dialysis in some cases?
It's surprising in the sense that even people with fully functioning kidneys could benefit from it.
I would say that it's unsurprising that our organs are less than perfect at doing their jobs, given that they operate under various constraints (e.g. running under an ATP power budget, one tuned for an ancestral environment where dying of hunger was a real concern; being only able to eliminate metabolic waste at the rate blood flow can take it away; having to avoid strategies that lead to DNA damage, like running anaerobically for long periods; etc.)
Therefore, it's also unsurprising that external devices can do some of an organ's jobs "better" than the organ itself can. They devices don't have the same constraints our organs do.
This effect is already very clear for pacemakers: hearts are very bad at keeping themselves going in oxygen-poor conditions (as they effectively have a circular dependency—a heart can't beat without flowing oxygenated blood); but electronic pacemakers don't need oxygen, and so keep the heart going under such conditions, until oxygen-rich blood can return.
Once we perfect stem-cell organ synthesis, it'd be intriguing to know whether "untethered" human longevity could be increased just by sticking "moar kidney" and "moar liver" into the body, than the human body-plan calls for by default.
Re: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
#54I just gave blood today. I have been trying to give blood as often as possible (once every eight weeks) to help keep cholesterol and iron low. Now, of course, I'm getting a free COVID-19 antibody test out of the deal. I'm wondering if this frequency of blood donations has a similar effect.
> "They replace half the blood volume in mice" I'd speculate the difference in volume is too great, having half your blood replaced with saline solution must feel awful.
"half of the blood plasma"
Important difference.
Interesting point by aomix about the temperature, but that could be compensated for if it was needed.
I haven't donated plasma in a long time, but pretty much the only thing I felt when the blood cells and platelets were returned was a light tickling near the needle and sometimes a faint chemical taste or smell, presumably from some component in the replacement fluid. Exchanging several liters would take time, certainly, but it doesn't seem at all a given that it would be very disagreeable in the immediate term.
Slightly longer term, one might certainly wonder about the comfort effects of having stuff like hormones and cytokines, circulating antibodies, clotting factors, etcetera rapidly halved. That ought to jolt the homeostatic controllers good, and that could well be one of the reasons for the beneficial effects. And halving blood glucose should be potentially unpleasant, but I suspect the compensation would be very fast.
Re: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
#55> making conjoined twins out of young and old mice — such that they share blood and organs That sent chills down my spine.
Now realize that the young mouse would have to be a clone of the old mouse, to prevent rejection.
Re: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
#56Seems like the conspiracy theories that the rich and global elite harvest the blood of the young and innocent to rejuvenate them isn't as false as we once thought... /s Sometimes I wish we had a medical system where whoever wanted to be a test patient for whatever reason could sign on the dotted line once advised of the potential downsides (up to and including death assumedly) so we could advance medical science fast…
Some conspiracy theory, they have a price list. https://www.ambrosiaplasma.com/
$8,000 for 2 liters. I knew it would be expensive, but that's bonkers.
Re: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
#57Post-hoc "evolutionary just-so story" of the day: animals evolved under conditions of predation, where they'd tend to lose blood regularly, either in the process of fighting off/getting away from predators, or in the process of attacking prey with violent defenses. A species that goes years without losing any blood, is effectively operating its body in an evolutionary out-of-spec configuration. It might work, for a while; but it wasn't heavily optimized for.
A testable hypothesis for this: if you count only the animals that survive long-enough to die by degenerative disease, then animals that get regularly bloodied by their predators or prey species should have longer average lifespans; while animals who don't (e.g. because they have no natural predators; because they're herbivores; because they prey only upon species with no violent defenses) should have shorter average lifespans. This shouldn't be purely a per-species effect, but should also be seen in a lifespan difference between e.g. wild and zoo animals, if the wild animals engage in bloody conflict that the zoo animals don't.
Does anyone know if that hypothesis holds up at all? (Maybe/especially if the question is phrased in terms of heartbeats† rather than years?)
Re: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "They replace half the blood volume in mice" I'd speculate the difference in volume is too great, having half your blood replaced with saline solution must feel awful.
"half of the blood plasma " Important difference. Interesting point by aomix about the temperature, but that could be compensated for if it was needed. I haven't donated plasma in a long time, but pretty much the only thing I felt when the blood cells and platelets were returned was a light tickling near the needle and sometimes a faint chemical taste or smell, presumably from some component in the replacement fluid.…
> That ought to jolt the homeostatic controllers good, and that could well be one of the reasons for the beneficial effects
Indeed, I'm wondering if this is yet another example of eustress. Other examples of eustress are exercise, sauna, and cryotherapy.
Re: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
#59The implication is not that young blood has specific positive properties, but that old blood has specific negative properties. Simply removing some of the "bad old blood" is already enough to measurably improve biomarkers. Identifying the bad stuff may go a long way to counteracting it in a more targeted way.
>Simply removing some of the "bad old blood"
well, that is in some sense that kidney and liver do, and when kidney and liver slow down then the "old blood" may be becoming "bad" (say like with bad oil or fuel filter in the car). Just adding saline water for example improves PH (as older body runs more acidic) and that has a lot of net positive effects.
https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article-pdf/51A/1...
" with increasing age, thereis a significant increase in the steady-state blood [H+] (p and on effects of increased acidity for example:
Re: Diluting blood plasma rejuvenates tissue, reverses aging in mice
#60Seems like the conspiracy theories that the rich and global elite harvest the blood of the young and innocent to rejuvenate them isn't as false as we once thought... /s Sometimes I wish we had a medical system where whoever wanted to be a test patient for whatever reason could sign on the dotted line once advised of the potential downsides (up to and including death assumedly) so we could advance medical science fast…
Some conspiracy theory, they have a price list. https://www.ambrosiaplasma.com/
Boy, wait until those customers find out they paid all that money for young plasma when all they needed was a saline and albumin solution.