Time to Upgrade Your Monitor • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#361

Post by sixstringtheory » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

dsabanin wrote: post #131

the_af wrote: post #76

The technical details are all right (or seem right to me, anyway), but this is too opinionated for my liking. No, you do not need a 4K monitor for software development. Some people might like them, some won't. [edit/clarification: someone rightfully pointed out that nobody will actively dislike a 4K monitor. I was unclear here: I meant "some people won't need them" more than "dislike them"] This sounds like when Jeff…

I love my 3 monitor setup. In 20 years of coding, I finally reached peak productivity in my workspace. No switching between windows, ease of throwing a window aside for monitoring, laying out information and tools side to side. It’s incredible once you readjust your habits and learn to use that new space. I compare it to having a large, wide desk when you’re working on something. Who wouldn’t want that? I was one of…

Agree with other commenter who said you know what's best for you. Good job on iterating toward an optimal setup!

But I will tell you why multi monitor setups aren't the best for me. It doesn't feel like having a nice big desk to work at; rather, it's like having a separate desk for each monitor, and I have to move from one to the other to use it. With more than one centered monitor, I have to move my head to look between them, or my entire body, so that I can face straight towards whichever monitor I'm currently looking at. I've tried going back to multi monitor setups many times and every time I get tired of it faster due to straining my neck, eyes, elbows and shoulders with all that turning-to.

For me, it's one very nice monitor, with my laptop plugged in in clamshell mode (although now I leave my rMBP cracked so I can use TouchID).

I've also been using a window manager (Moom) with hotkeys to be able to set up three vertical windows on my screen. That seems to be the sweet spot for me: I can have multiple different code editors, or editor+terminal+web, or throw in email/slack/whatever into the mix. (I can also split a vertical column to two windows to achieve a 2 row x 3 column layout, and lots of other layouts, 1x1 vert/hor, 2x2, centered small/large...) I feel like I've arrived where you're at, my perfect setup!

I also still enjoy the 13" rMBP screen, although I can't get to 3 columns, and lately the keyboard hurts my wrists after extended usage. I use a Kinesis Freestyle 2 with the monitor+rMBP which has been absolutely fantastic for typing ergonomics.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#362

Post by pokemongoaway » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:29 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #166

As an early adopter to monitor technology, I have to say that I consistently regret it. I got one of the first 4k mainstream monitors. I paid $3000 for it. This was back in the day when DisplayPort didn't really "do" 4k, so it was done by pretending it was two monitors internally. This broke EVERYTHING. For years, I struggled with Linux trying to treat two monitors as one big one (and putting new windows right on the…

Don't let them convince you that you're expecting too much or whatever. They're just liars and we need more people who can see truth like you.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#363

Post by bredren » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:29 PM UTC

ianhowson wrote: post #297

rootusrootus wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 27 inch IPS display, 5120 x 2880 @ 60Hz with standard glass at $1999 That's $200 more than it costs with the computer built in. Would rather see it more aggressively priced, or at least bring back target mode.

I've got a Planar IX2790 and it's great. Article is spot-on re. scaling -- it's much nicer to look at all day (native 2x scaling) vs. 4k at 1.5x scaling.

Thanks for this idea. The design looks surprisingly like the old cinema display. Actually, apparently they use the same glass from the cinema display but no camera. [1]

It looks like the main concerns on this are around stuck pixels. Have you gone through calibration / QA on yours? [2]

Otherwise, seems like a compelling alternative to the Ultrafine.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/8zomas/i_just_rec...

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/e5n9y5/planar_ix2...

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#364

Post by the_af » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #329

the_af wrote: post #76

The technical details are all right (or seem right to me, anyway), but this is too opinionated for my liking. No, you do not need a 4K monitor for software development. Some people might like them, some won't. [edit/clarification: someone rightfully pointed out that nobody will actively dislike a 4K monitor. I was unclear here: I meant "some people won't need them" more than "dislike them"] This sounds like when Jeff…

Having used CRT monitors, 1920x1080 displays, 4K displays and 5K displays, as well as various Retina Macbooks over many years, mostly for coding, here's my opinion: The only good solution today is the iMac 5K. Yes, 5K makes all the difference — it lets me comfortably fit three columns of code instead of two in my full-screen Emacs, and that's a huge improvement. 4K monitors are usable, but annoying, the scaling is ju…

> So no, I don't think you can develop using "tiny laptops with poor 1366x768 displays". At least not all kinds of software, and not everyone can.

This opinion seems bizarre to me. You start by offering personal (and valid) anecdote, then end up saying "I don't think you can develop [...]". But this flies in the face of evidence. Most people by far do not use your preferred monitor setup (iMac 5K) and in my country a vast number of developers use 1366x768 to develop all sorts of high quality software.

It's one thing to say "as I grow older, I find I prefer $SETUP". No-one can argue with that, it's your opinion (and it might very well become mine as I grow... um, older than I already am!). It's an entirely different thing to claim, as you do here and I think TFA does in similar terms, "you cannot prefer lower tech setups", "you cannot develop software this way", "it's very difficult to develop software without $SETUP". The latter is demonstrably false! I've seen it done, again and again, by people who were masters at their craft.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#365

Post by PStamatiou » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:31 PM UTC

bredren wrote: post #122

PStamatiou wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1, love my XDR for coding and designing: https://paulstamatiou.com/stuff-i-use/

Thanks for this. You don't comment on the 60 vs 120 hz that is highlighted in OP opinion piece. Any thoughts on XDRs apparent lack of support for 120?

Color accuracy is far more important to me than 120hz capable. The faster displays today tend to be subpar at color accuracy, illumination uniformity, etc.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#366

Post by katmannthree » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:33 PM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #242

opencl wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen plenty of professionals using Harbor Freight tools, usually not carpenters but the tile saws and wrenches seem popular for professional use. The correlation seems more likely to me that if you can afford the fancy tools then you've already had some level of success. Though there are those new mechanics who bury themselves in a mountain of debt buying a whole chest full of Snap-On stuff...

Well the old Harbor Freight stuff was REALLY good, then they sold out and it turned to crap.

In the last few years they've addressed that. Their Chicago Electric tools should generally be avoided but the Vulcan line of welders and Bauer/Hercules hand tools are all perfectly serviceable for light/occasional use.

The issue with heavy use is not that they don't work but that they're heavier, less ergonomic, and less robust/repairable than the name brands; if you can afford the name brands and will be using the tool until it breaks, fixing it, and then using it more then you'll want to go with the name brands.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#367

Post by GaryNumanVevo » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:33 PM UTC

foolmeonce wrote: post #356

I'll upgrade when color E-Ink is ready, has a good spectrum and has 20" for a (near?) reasonable price.. I'm not sure who needs a high DPI Lite Brite, but it's certainly not relevant at my age.

I would LOVE to code outside on a Color E-Ink display. It's fairly impractical to work outside with modern screens.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#368

Post by gruez » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #337

gruez wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>many modern screens still are 12bit Unless you're using a really cheap screen, most LCDs are 8 bits per color. The cheap ones use 6 bits + 2 bits FRC. 12 bits (presumably 4 bits per color) seems insanely low because it would mean only 16 possible shades per primary color. >meanwhile silicon graphics had a CRT screen in 1995 that was 48bit Source for this? 10 bit color support in graphics cards only became available…

> 10 bit color support in graphics cards only became available around 2015. That's off by a decade. > 256 color monitors Is that a thing that exists? > We've only switched to 10 bit because of HDR. You can get clear banding on an 8 bit output, and 10 bit displays are used at the high end. 10-bit HDR isn't immune to banding, since most of the increased coding space goes into expanding the range. There's a good reason…

>That's off by a decade.

mainstream support, at least. 10 bit HDR support for AMD cards was introduced with Fiji (2015), and Nvidia was introduced with Maxwell (2014)

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#369

Post by bitwize » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:35 PM UTC

the_af wrote: post #152

dsabanin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my 3 monitor setup. In 20 years of coding, I finally reached peak productivity in my workspace. No switching between windows, ease of throwing a window aside for monitoring, laying out information and tools side to side. It’s incredible once you readjust your habits and learn to use that new space. I compare it to having a large, wide desk when you’re working on something. Who wouldn’t want that? I was one of…

I understand this and I don't want to argue against anyone's preferences. You know what's best for you . I'm just pushing back against these out of touch fads. Most developers worldwide don't have a three-monitor setup. There is no proven correlation between quality software and 4K displays or mechanical keyboards (to name other fads). More importantly, the best devs I've known -- people I admire -- used tiny laptops…

Mechanical keyboards don't make you a better coder.

But the only thing that will is writing lots of code -- over years and decades. And about 12 years ago, I started running into this anti-feature of human physiology known as "aging". And whereas in my think-I'm-so-l33t 20s I could bang out code on crappy desktop and laptop keyboards, by my 30s they were turning my hands into gnarled claws.

The remedy for this, for me, was a keyboard with Cherry MX switches. The crisp feedback let me know when a stroke was registered, so I unconsciously pressed each key less hard and was able to type faster with less pain.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#370

Post by Wowfunhappy » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

bityard wrote: post #358

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some web pages zoom text by viewport size, which I hate, and a bigger monitor would then just make it worse. Not that it excuses bad UX, but you might consider keeping your browser window at something below full width. I find this more comfortable anyway. Total aside: I've noticed Windows and Linux users tend to keep their windows fully maximized, whereas Mac users don't. Doesn't apply to everyone of course, but en…

> I've noticed Windows and Linux users tend to keep their windows fully maximized Interesting, I've noticed the exact opposite. Mac devs, especially younger ones, tend to have full-screen IDEs and browsers and constantly flick back and forth between apps. My theory was always that Windows and Linux users had gotten comfortable with the desktop metaphor while a large percentage of newer Mac users grew up using iPads w…

Quick note I perhaps should have clarified, I wasn't thinking about the Mac's "full screen mode". This was something I noticed about other students in my high school a decade ago (why it's coming to mind now, I have no idea), before full screen mode existed on Mac.

It used to be that if you clicked the green button on Mac, most apps (not all apps, for weird aqua-UI reasons, but certainly web browsers) would grow to fill the screen without outright hiding the menu bar and dock, just like the maximize button on Windows.