Pyrrhic Victory • Hacker News Board

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#131

Post by JackFr » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

loudmax wrote: post #61

JackFr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeff Bezos became a billionaire by making the lives of Amazon’s customers better. Sam Walton did more to improve the lot of poor families than most government programs. (Those guys at least built something. Why does no one complain about America’s grandpa Warren Buffett. He just shuffled around money, plays with warrants and options (while telling others not to) and makes a couple hundred million by going to Congress…

Shuffling money around is absolutely an important part of the economy. It moves resources from unproductive or low productive companies to higher producing companies. The name for this activity is called "Capitalism". One could argue that Warren Buffet should pay higher taxes. And he would agree! But unless you find capitalism itself unethical there is nothing wrong or underhanded with searching for undervalued firms…

I agree in general.

My biggest complaint is that that instead of paying higher taxes Warren Buffet could maybe not jawbone Congress into bailing out AIG. AIG should have gone bankrupt and Goldman Sachs (and their other counterparties) should have borne that pain, and possibly gone bankrupt themselves. Instead Warren Buffet refuses to come to the rescue of AIG, comes to the rescue of GS, and then tells Congress that the economy will freeze up if AIG and other banks aren't bailed out. That is not efficient allocation, that's crony capitalism.

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#132

Post by munificent » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:57 PM UTC

tclancy wrote: post #46

RobertoG wrote: post #24

"That policy will work for as long as the rest of the world continues to accept US dollars as something other than pieces of funny green paper…" What a nonsense. Like if the USA is the only one doing it. Everybody is doing it and at the same time. I hope this help some people to dispel this myths about the "public debt" and living to the grandchildren expense. What markets are covering this public debt when everybody…

I think you missed the point. If the current administration, or possibly some other dumb one in the future, undermines US credibility where other countries unpeg from the dollar, we are going to turn into a shithole country pretty quickly.

> we are going to turn into a shithole country pretty quickly.

We have piles of rich natural resources, an educated populace, good infrastructure, and high mobility. Sure, some of those aren't where they were decades ago, but we still have an incredibly strong foundation to build on. America is much more than just the USD.

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#133

Post by couchand » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

woeirua wrote: post #90

orbifold wrote: post #33

It is interesting how different countries and cultures deal with the same challenge. Streets were pretty empty and shops were closed for maybe a month here in Germany. Now (almost) everything is open again, the streets are full. Unemployment rose somewhat but not catastrophically. The images and videos we get from the US feel apocalyptical in contrast.

You have to be careful with what you look at in the US. The media here is definitely cherry picking the worst of the worst to show people. Were some places hit really hard? Yes. Absolutely. Does the entire country look like NYC? No. Not even close.

Hey, even the outer boroughs seem more-or-less normal. It's just Manhattan that looks post-apocalyptic, and even there it depends greatly on the neighborhood.

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#134

Post by loudmax » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #131

loudmax wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shuffling money around is absolutely an important part of the economy. It moves resources from unproductive or low productive companies to higher producing companies. The name for this activity is called "Capitalism". One could argue that Warren Buffet should pay higher taxes. And he would agree! But unless you find capitalism itself unethical there is nothing wrong or underhanded with searching for undervalued firms…

I agree in general. My biggest complaint is that that instead of paying higher taxes Warren Buffet could maybe not jawbone Congress into bailing out AIG. AIG should have gone bankrupt and Goldman Sachs (and their other counterparties) should have borne that pain, and possibly gone bankrupt themselves. Instead Warren Buffet refuses to come to the rescue of AIG, comes to the rescue of GS, and then tells Congress that t…

Any private citizen has a right to jawbone Congress. By itself, that isn't a problem.

What is a problem is that congressional representatives are enormously influenced by donations to political campaigns. Even if they lose a reelection there's a whole industry in place to put them into cushy jobs if they've followed their party line. And the party line is to do what the campaign donors want, not necessarily what the constituents want. That is a problem.

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#135

Post by carapace » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

I don't think I understand what this is saying?

There are a lot of pictures of boarded up businesses, and the theme seems to be that taxes will suffer so that pensions suffer so the retirees suffer so the federal government will give them money. And that might not work if confidence in the dollar wanes.

Is that it?

- - - -

Empty streets are a good thing because the pandemic is still on. Without hella tests and a vaccine distance and soap are our friends. The metaphor I think of is an invisible fire. Until we have ways to see the fire the best you can do is keep the fuel (you and me) apart.

- - - -

The economy will reconfigure. "Reboot the economy!"

The whole point of markets is that they act as a kind of natural cybernetic governor (in the mechanical, not political, sense of the word.)

Those empty buildings and store fronts will come back to life as soon as possible. The physical infrastructure is not getting damaged by the virus.

People want to work, start businesses, build homes, go to school, all that. The demand is there.

- - - -

As an aside,

> First, they wanted their taxes reduced dramatically. Second, they wanted all the perks and services they were already receiving.

FWIW, you could do that by trimming a tiny bit off the defense budget and improving health care efficiency.

(Defense and health care are the two largest parts of the US budget.)

- - - -

Speaking of which I think people will continue to value the dollar as long as the USA maintains it's military supremacy. We're the 800-lb gorilla still.

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#136

Post by war1025 » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:16 PM UTC

I thought the angle he was going at was that our fight against the Coronavirus was going to be a Pyrrihic victory because we cratered our economy in the process.

Apparently he was going after some other indirect angle about people ragging on cities doing poorly and those same people being dependent on revenue from cities.

The first would have been a far more fitting essay, in my opinion.

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#137

Post by doublesCs » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

syncsynchalt wrote: post #121

doublesCs wrote: post #93

> I’m 52 and have never had a cavity What? Certainly that can't be true.

There's a big genetic component to oral health, such as the DEFB1 gene. Some people are lucky and never get cavities. Others are unlucky and need constant fillings despite a stringent oral health regimen.

I imagined as much. I'm 35 and had a few cavities, and have friends who've had loads of cavities and even teeth removed. But no cavities at 52, I never thought that effect was so extreme. I would like to understand what exactly in your genes is preventing cavities. Because from what I know cavities are largely bacteria attacking your teeth? So some people have better defense afainst those bacteria? How exactly does that work? I mean, microscopically.

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#138

Post by war1025 » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #125

pyuser583 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very unpopular opinion, but transparency is not necessarily a good thing.

If I had to pick between transparency and lobbying (in its current form), I'd take transparency.

The person saying transparency wasn't a good thing was saying that because transparency allows for more efficient lobbying, it has resulted in a more easily gamed system.

The tradeoff they are pointing out isn't "transparency or lobbying" it's "transparency + rampant lobbying vs secrecy + less effective lobbying"

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#139

Post by dxdm » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:26 PM UTC

firebacon wrote: post #126

orbifold wrote: post #33

It is interesting how different countries and cultures deal with the same challenge. Streets were pretty empty and shops were closed for maybe a month here in Germany. Now (almost) everything is open again, the streets are full. Unemployment rose somewhat but not catastrophically. The images and videos we get from the US feel apocalyptical in contrast.

Unemployment in Germany didn't go up much because they reclassified the "unemployed" as "furloughed". The end result is the same though, recipients are living entirely off government assistance. 7.3 million germans are currently fourloughed. That is 21% of the workforce!

A major difference is between losing your job and keeping it, and businesses keeping their trained workforce. A lot of people work less instead of not at all. Come better days, it will be much easier to get back on track, hopefully.

Re: Pyrrhic Victory

#140

Post by war1025 » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #45

orbifold wrote: post #33

It is interesting how different countries and cultures deal with the same challenge. Streets were pretty empty and shops were closed for maybe a month here in Germany. Now (almost) everything is open again, the streets are full. Unemployment rose somewhat but not catastrophically. The images and videos we get from the US feel apocalyptical in contrast.

The "libertarian" states implemented the worst possible solutions: a lockdown that was big enough to damage businesses, but not early enough or thorough enough to actually limit the spread.

> The "libertarian" states

Which states are those exactly?