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Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

nationalreview.com

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Re: Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

#71

Post by jeffreyrogers »

codq wrote: post #60
downerending wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying that anyone who gets beaten for their opinion had it coming? Truly we live in evil times.

Absolutely did not say that. You seem to think the bar for being beaten for an opinion is so low that it's anything that goes against mainstream opinion. Of course people should disagree, experience dialectics, have conversations, debate, spar, parry, and enjoy rigorous conversation. But then there are sentiments that are beyond the pale. Should NAMBLA be allowed a late night talk show, or an NYT editorial to espouse…

> Should Richard Spencer be punched in the face for being a bigoted piece of human garbage?

No? I'm not sure why you're advocating violence. If we start allowing violence against bad people, where do we stop?

Re: Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

#72

Post by jeffreyrogers »

sammaeliam wrote: post #54
downerending wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ground has shifted. Someone who was a moderate in 1995 would be considered "alt-right" today.

I've been a moderate in 1995. At no point did I buy into ideology that we currently associate with the alt-reich.

> At no point did I buy into ideology that we currently associate with the alt-reich.

With phrasing like that you've certainly bought into some ideology.

Re: Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

#73

Post by jeffreyrogers »

padseeker wrote: post #49
sbmthakur wrote: post #15

> Sacramento Kings play-by-play announcer Grant Napear, who’s been calling games since 1988, was forced to resign after saying the words “all lives matter.” I thought 'All lives matter' was commonsense.

"All Lives Matter" taken literally totally is compatible with "Black Lives Matter". However "All Lives Matter" when said is not meant literally. No one said all livers matter until someone said "Black Lives Matters". It's an attempt to shut down "Black Lives Matter". And the opposite of "Black Lives Matter" isn't the opposite of "All Lives Matter", the opposite is Black Lives Don't Matter, which is what is happening…

> which is what is happening when so many black people are killed by the police and no one says or does anything.

Hard to say no one does anything when you see the massive riots and protests that have occurred recently. And are so many black people killed by police? They don't seem to be killed more than other groups. So maybe police killings in general are a problem, but they don't seem specifically directed at black people.

Re: Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

#74

Post by asdfman123 »

disposekinetics wrote: post #67
montagg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're absolutely doing things that future generations will find abhorrent. And as our thinking as humans evolves, I hope we'll also change our behavior. But let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good. When we are aware that behaviors and symbols are hurtful to other humans, and we genuinely believe that other people should be able to live without fear, then we should change both. We're not going to get it 100%…

> [...] too often that conservatives simply want to throw their hands up and either downplay or outright ignore the problem in order to say it's not solvable or not worth solving. That's just cowardice, and we can do better. I think this is an uncharitable interpretation of conservatism. My perception is that conservatives disagree with me over the problem set, not the idea that we should solve problems.

Well, I'm not trying to delve into the deeper philosophy of conservatism -- it's moot for what I'm talking about. I mean I see all these obvious problems in America, and the right doesn't seem to have real solutions to solve them.

If I'm being honest, most of the conservatives I've talked to seem more interested in undermining progress because it's coming from the other side of the aisle, or because it implies that government should have a hand in helping it along.

Re: Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

#75

Post by AnimalMuppet »

codq wrote: post #60
downerending wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying that anyone who gets beaten for their opinion had it coming? Truly we live in evil times.

Absolutely did not say that. You seem to think the bar for being beaten for an opinion is so low that it's anything that goes against mainstream opinion. Of course people should disagree, experience dialectics, have conversations, debate, spar, parry, and enjoy rigorous conversation. But then there are sentiments that are beyond the pale. Should NAMBLA be allowed a late night talk show, or an NYT editorial to espouse…

Yes, you should be allowed to call him that. No, you should not be allowed to punch him in the face, and should be arrested and jailed for doing so.

Violence is justified to protect yourself or others from violence. Not from speech, from violence. There are some small grey areas, but this isn't rocket science.

Re: Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

#76

Post by mintym »

drocer88 wrote: post #24

"Flagged". We need to at least listen to opposing views. The sanctimonious silencing of non mainstream views is scary.

From my Catholic perspective it is remarkable how well it tracks with heresy, for context: dissent from one point of the Magisterium makes one a heretic. Analogy being dissent from one point of the most recent iteration of liberalism makes one worthy of unpersonage / cancellable. Recent high profile target being JK Rowling discussed here a few days ago

Re: Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

#77

Post by AnimalMuppet »

disposekinetics wrote: post #67
montagg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're absolutely doing things that future generations will find abhorrent. And as our thinking as humans evolves, I hope we'll also change our behavior. But let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good. When we are aware that behaviors and symbols are hurtful to other humans, and we genuinely believe that other people should be able to live without fear, then we should change both. We're not going to get it 100%…

> [...] too often that conservatives simply want to throw their hands up and either downplay or outright ignore the problem in order to say it's not solvable or not worth solving. That's just cowardice, and we can do better. I think this is an uncharitable interpretation of conservatism. My perception is that conservatives disagree with me over the problem set, not the idea that we should solve problems.

Sometimes conservatives even agree on the problems set, but disagree with the proposed solutions. That isn't just obstructionism. If you actually care about solving problem X, then a "solution" that won't actually help isn't useful. Opposing the proposed solution doesn't mean that you don't care about problem X, or that you're part of the problem, or that you hate those who suffer under X, or whatever. It may mean that you think the proposed solution won't work, and that pouring all our time, energy, and money into that solution isn't the answer.

Re: Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

#78

Post by s9w »

scott_paul wrote: post #65
s9w wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having honest problems parsing this comment. What's WP and what's a lolcow?

Ah well WP is WordPress, of course. Truly an evil thing that we must all apologize for, forever, or until it's perfectly bug-free. As for lolcow, you'll be more entertained if you google it than if anyone explains it to you.

What a time to be alive.

Re: Welcome to America’s Cultural Revolution

#79

Post by AnimalMuppet »

s9w wrote: post #55
padseeker wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All Lives Matter" taken literally totally is compatible with "Black Lives Matter". However "All Lives Matter" when said is not meant literally. No one said all livers matter until someone said "Black Lives Matters". It's an attempt to shut down "Black Lives Matter". And the opposite of "Black Lives Matter" isn't the opposite of "All Lives Matter", the opposite is Black Lives Don't Matter, which is what is happening…

As a counterpoint, look at what happens with the "it's okay to be white" posters. Completely benign, commonsense and not a reaction to something. And yet...

Not a reaction to something? Really?
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