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Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

bbc.co.uk

301–310 of 510 posts

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#301
This may sound positive (less ads, less disinformation) at first glance, but I think it's actually a terrible and dangerous development.

Zuck has seen that he's going to get hate no matter what his political content moderation policy is, so he thinks he can escape that by literally escaping from it: letting users just turn it off.

But while he has the legal right to, in the larger societal sense it's dangerously and profoundly antidemocratic. One of the most famous quotes regarding political speech is:

> "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence." — Justice Louis Brandeis (emphasis added)

Enforced silence is the antithesis of a healthy democratic society. The ability to close yourself off in a bubble where you can't be reached by opposing viewpoints is relinquishing your duties as a democratic citizen.

The true downside of this is that people will continue to get toxic, false political speech from their crazy uncles, friends and family members -- and truth-minded political groups will be unable to place ads to counter that influence.

This is why it's a a terrible, dangerous development. Again -- Zuck has every legal right to do it since Facebook is a private (not governmental) entity. But as Facebook these days is essentially half of our national "town square" of citizens (the other half being Twitter), this is not a good direction for America (or the world broadly) to head in.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#302

Political adverts isn't the main problem. The key issue is that the candidates can say virtually anything they want irrespectively whether it's true or not.The blame game is huge as well and shouldn't be allowed at all. Until all this is fixed, there's not much hope for any ON/OFF settings on social media.

> The key issue is that the candidates can say virtually anything they want irrespectively whether it's true or not.

A lot of the people who appear to believe a given politician's untruths don't actually believe them, but go along because they feel the untruths are a small "price" to pay for the larger goals they share with the politician. The liar is on their "side", after all.

This phenomenon - publicly believing or denying, and privately disbelieving - gets more extreme the greater the untruth. Basically, as long as they are in on the political lie, they don't mind being lied to.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#303
post #299
post #163

This misses the point hard. The problem is people who don't realize they're being lied to.

Are you implying a corporation should be in charge of critical thinking for a society; a corporate ministry of truth?

They've already decided to do this, they just carved out an exception for when it's a politician lying. Read their terms of service.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#304
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The "echo chambers" explanation, in particular, seems wrong. Echo chambers always existed. Echo chambers always did, but I think the bubble-forming dynamic we have now is a bit different. It's not that I have my own views echoed back to me by the communities I'm in all the time, it's that so much of my exposure to opposing views is often coming from some of the dumbest and most unhinged people on Earth. It's the fil…

> I think one of the big ones is that our intellectual institutions have given themselves over to internet troll logic, including many prestigious Op-Ed pages Yes, absolutely. The prevalence of stupid "both sides" reasoning calls into being the contrarians and gives them a platform - in order to have someone say the world is round, you have to find a flat earth pundit as well and put them opposite each other so the p…

Can you come up with a better example? I don’t think flat earthers have been given any air time at all.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#305

This may sound positive (less ads, less disinformation) at first glance, but I think it's actually a terrible and dangerous development. Zuck has seen that he's going to get hate no matter what his political content moderation policy is, so he thinks he can escape that by literally escaping from it: letting users just turn it off. But while he has the legal right to, in the larger societal sense it's dangerously and…

Ads give more power to those with more money. It's not a leveled playing field, at least in the US.

Many countries limit spending on adverts (or campaigns in general) for this reason.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#307

It's a good feature from an individual perspective. It's not a good feature if you don't like cultural bubbles forming. Democrats will block Republican ads, Republicans will block Democrat ads - will that lead to a better world when Republicans can't reach Democrat voters or vice versa? I find this focus (attack?) on political advertising on social media platforms by traditional media companies to be self-serving and…

> the pro-Democratic party bias in almost all traditional media

I often see this presented as a given, but it doesn't ring true to me. Is there some evidence or research I'm missing showing that traditional media is biased toward the Democratic party?

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#308
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might want to brush up on more recent news, because by now Cambridge Analytica’s data has been shown to have been mostly useless at meaningful targeting. Even the New York Times reported that Cambridge Analytica’s impact on the election of Donald Trump as president was overrated. https://stratechery.com/2018/the-facebook-brand/ From the article: “But a dozen Republican consultants and former Trump campaig…

I'm not contesting the conclusion. But traditional media is incentivized to be biased against social media. So "even the NY Times" isn't particularly compelling. (Not to mention NYT is squarely center right, politically. "Left" of the GOP but not left in any meaningful sense.)

> But traditional media is incentivized to be biased against social media. So "even the NY Times" isn't particularly compelling

That makes the NYTimes admitting that it wasn’t that big of a deal more compelling, not less.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#309
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democrats will block Republican ads, Republicans will block Democrat ads I could be wrong, but it sounds like you can just turn off all political ads, not those from specific parties.

Not to mention you already could accomplish this by blocking ads from those specific parties... just like you could block ads from a company.

But that turns into a ridiculous game of whack-a-mole, because there are always new PACs that can pop up. That is a huge difference from a one-and-done checkbox somewhere that lets me block all political adds, regardless of what new parties and organizations are created in the future.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#310
post #276
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> highlights their double standard "I want to build a platform where people freely discuss ideas (factual or infactual) and can pay extra to disseminate ideas more broadly (factual or infactual), but I don't want to build a porn site" is not a double standard, it's just a very specific point of view. The need for internal consistency is odd, because you could just as easily use that argument to make a strong case tha…

We've gone from > They actively want their users to be free to consume what they want, even if others think that’s bad for them. To "They're legally allowed to remove whatever posts they want, and they don't need to be consistent about it". There's a lot of shitty behavior that's legally allowed. That doesn't change the fact that "Lies are banned, unless a politician posts them" is a shitty and obviously self-serving…

"We've gone from > They actively want their users to be free to consume what they want, even if others think that’s bad for them.

To "They're legally allowed to remove whatever posts they want, and they don't need to be consistent about it"."

Your framing here suggests that you think that I've shifted my stance in some way, but that's not the case at all.

I, as a consumer of Facebook, enjoy the platform because I can (foremost) communicate with my friends/family, and also because the ads I see are relevant to my interests. I, as an independent swing voter, also enjoy being able to see political ads from everyone, directly from the horse's mouth. The fact that one is able to choose whether or not they want to consume political ads if they've already made up my mind, is great. Everyone gets what they want there.

While you're correct that ads can be misleading or wrong, and that an impressionable voter can see an ad that you may not want them to see, that is a consequence of living in a free society where information can be freely disseminated. I can persuade someone of the most incorrect or immoral point of view, and there's not much you can do to prevent me from doing that except to try and make your own case to persuade them back.

Freedom of speech (as a principle, not as a law) isn't just the freedom for the the speaker to disseminate their ideas, it's also the freedom of the audience to hear it. If you don't want to consume some speech, that's fine (and your prerogative), but that doesn't mean that you get to decide what I see. As for pornography, there are a ton of places one can go to consume unfettered pornography. There are not very many places one can participate in a virtual public square with a cacophony of ideas and views — it's really just Facebook or Twitter. In my subjective view I have less of a problem with Facebook disallowing pornography than I would of them disallowing political speech (paid or otherwise).

The fact that Facebook appears to be running their platform with this principle is in no way inconsistent with the statement "They actively want their users to be free to consume what they want, even if others think that’s bad for them."

> In other words, their stance is currently "We'll only censor the unimportant things that the small guys post."

The links to Facebook's ToS that you provided appear to only disallow ads that could already be held liable for legal damage. And keep in mind that false advertising and defamation, in American law, is only regulated through material damages, not as a function of the speech itself. If a company posted an ad for a toaster that doesn't actually work, and nobody purchases the toaster, they can't be indemnified. It is only after someone buys a dud toaster, that they can sue the company for damages. All that being said, the unanimous NYT v Sullivan decision held that it is not illegal to make political promises that you can't keep, and it is not illegal to be publicly wrong about the facts. You cannot sue George HW Bush for raising your taxes after campaigning on "Read My Lips, No New Taxes" — it just doesn't work that way.

Insofar as FB also polices what a private individual has to say about something, I think we can find common ground and agree that this is bad, and antithetical to Facebook's purported stance on free information.

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