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Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

bbc.co.uk

241–250 of 510 posts

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point. Will a person who turns these ads off even UNDERSTAND that they're not allowing a Black Lives Matter organization to let them know about upcoming events? How will that be explained to the user? The advertiser might only even be sharing the ads with people set up on a recurring contribution to inform them how to stay involved.

Would you be ok with the inverse situation? You could allow ads from an organization you'd support, but you'd also be allowing ads from organizations contrary to your own beliefs?

That's literally the status quo. Yes, I probably favor that over this.

My point is three-fold:

1. There's no education about what this actually means. This has been pitched as during the 2020 election, hide ads from candidates. But it's not that. The coverage is unclear and it's unlikely Facebook will fully explain.

2. There's no flexibility to let people change the settings how they truly wish. Maybe I want to hear from organizations I belong to but don't want to see ads from political figures, for example. There's no setting for this. Keep in mind, you can be a dues-paying member of an org, follow them on Facebook, and still rarely see their organic posts. Facebook limited to reach of Facebook pages to encourage advertising, so simply being a Fan isn't a reliable way to see updates.

3. The meaning of "politics" is unclear. It allows ads from polluting companies, but not from environmental orgs. The restriction applies to Black Lives Matter, but possibly not to organizations raising money for police.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#242
post #207
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think FB (and Zuck) have made it pretty clear by now that they actively want their users to be free to consume what they want, even if others think that’s bad for them. They understand what they’re doing.

That's blatantly false. Try posting porn, or lies in ads about non-political topics. Political ads are the only thing that gets a pass.

> porn

Sure, this is a fair exception. FB has decided that it does not want to be a porn site. We may all disagree with that decision, but it's theirs to make.

> lies about non-political topics

Can you elaborate on this? It is 100% possible to post non-political lies on FB. The only exception to this is libel/defamation and false advertising, but that's for legal reasons. And even there, you can only sue for material damages incurred, and cannot simply sue for the speech in question (which is itself protected).

To the extent that FB wants its platform to contain political ads (factual or otherwise), it's because they subjectively see value in a global platform for users to decide for themselves what is true and what is false. You may argue that this is bad for society/bad for democracy, which is fair. Facebook clearly seems to disagree with that, which is also fair.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#243

It's a good feature from an individual perspective. It's not a good feature if you don't like cultural bubbles forming. Democrats will block Republican ads, Republicans will block Democrat ads - will that lead to a better world when Republicans can't reach Democrat voters or vice versa? I find this focus (attack?) on political advertising on social media platforms by traditional media companies to be self-serving and…

When you see a bad ad on TV, you might talk about it with your spouse or kids. When you see a bad ad on Facebook, you argue with 1000 strangers.

I deactivated my Facebook account 6 months ago or so for precisely that reason. I was in a "community group" for my neighbourhood and every little thing would descend into an argument you would never have if you were talking in person. For example, a person complained that his neighbour was shoveling the snow from his sidewalk onto the road instead of his yard. Huge 40 person argument began. People act different online.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#244

It's a good feature from an individual perspective. It's not a good feature if you don't like cultural bubbles forming. Democrats will block Republican ads, Republicans will block Democrat ads - will that lead to a better world when Republicans can't reach Democrat voters or vice versa? I find this focus (attack?) on political advertising on social media platforms by traditional media companies to be self-serving and…

> Democrats will block Republican ads, Republicans will block Democrat ads I could be wrong, but it sounds like you can just turn off all political ads, not those from specific parties.

Not to mention you already could accomplish this by blocking ads from those specific parties... just like you could block ads from a company.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#245
post #192
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely the right stance to take. Nothing will change if you don't do it, and choosing to ignore politics is not going to lead to better politics. You'd just leave the bad actors all the room to act!

You're right but I think it's a mistake to assume that politics should be everyone's "thing." Everyone should vote but not everyone needs to be in the weeds of the political process unless it's something they're passionate about. And when it comes to the "civic duty" level of participation there's honestly not much that to do. You'll know pretty quick whether you're part of the red, blue, or grey tribe so you can jus…

Why should everybody vote? I live in a solidly blue state where the electoral college votes are a forgone conclusion. I'd just be adding another thimble-full of water to an ocean. I suppose voting would give me the sticker, but I'm not really a sticker collector. I could move to a swing-state, but I like living where I live, and not everybody can move to a swing-state anyway.

Granted there is local politics, which I occasionally vote in, but more often than not I am not sufficiently informed in local politics to make an informed decision. If I don't feel I can make an informed decision, why should I vote? My input, if anything, would only add more noise to the process. That doesn't seem productive. I think, when aware of my own ignorance, abstaining from the voting process is the responsible choice.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#246
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might want to brush up on more recent news, because by now Cambridge Analytica’s data has been shown to have been mostly useless at meaningful targeting. Even the New York Times reported that Cambridge Analytica’s impact on the election of Donald Trump as president was overrated. https://stratechery.com/2018/the-facebook-brand/ From the article: “But a dozen Republican consultants and former Trump campaig…

I'm not contesting the conclusion. But traditional media is incentivized to be biased against social media. So "even the NY Times" isn't particularly compelling. (Not to mention NYT is squarely center right, politically. "Left" of the GOP but not left in any meaningful sense.)

http://wilkins.law.harvard.edu/projects/2017-08_mediacloud/G...

Partisanship, Propaganda, and Disinformation: Online Media and the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election

NYT sits pretty much center left, but feel free to point towards a more comprehensive study.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#247
post #242
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's blatantly false. Try posting porn, or lies in ads about non-political topics. Political ads are the only thing that gets a pass.

> porn Sure, this is a fair exception. FB has decided that it does not want to be a porn site. We may all disagree with that decision, but it's theirs to make. > lies about non-political topics Can you elaborate on this? It is 100% possible to post non-political lies on FB. The only exception to this is libel/defamation and false advertising, but that's for legal reasons. And even there, you can only sue for material…

> Sure, this is a fair exception. FB has decided that it does not want to be a porn site. We may all disagree with that decision, but it's theirs to make.

Yes, they've made a decision to restrict what the users can see, because facebook thinks it's bad. That's their right, but it highlights their double standard. I don't disagree with the decision, but it shows that this line of reasoning is bogus.

> Can you elaborate on this? It is 100% possible to post non-political lies on FB.

https://www.facebook.com/policies/ads

Most relevant:

https://www.facebook.com/policies/ads/prohibited_content/mis...

Also, the community standards, which describes what facebook may take down has a section on integrity and authenticity. That includes manipulated media and false news. It's likely not enforced on most posts due to cost reasons, but it's absolutely a part of their terms of service.

https://www.facebook.com/communitystandards/integrity_authen...

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#248
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can target Facebook ads with surgical precision to manipulate people exactly the way you want. This is exactly what Cambridge Analytica did. You cannot target people with such precision in traditional advertising. I don’t think it’s unfair to say social media advertising and data collection is the biggest risk to democracy that we have ever faced.

The targeted precision really is what's different. Your candidate can be N different single-issue candidates in a way that's just not possible without precise targeting. The "echo chambers" explanation, in particular, seems wrong. Echo chambers always existed.

>The "echo chambers" explanation, in particular, seems wrong. Echo chambers always existed.

Echo chambers always did, but I think the bubble-forming dynamic we have now is a bit different. It's not that I have my own views echoed back to me by the communities I'm in all the time, it's that so much of my exposure to opposing views is often coming from some of the dumbest and most unhinged people on Earth. It's the filtering for nutcases more than echoing back confirming views that seems to be the issue.

It's really easy to believe that certain perspectives are only held by insane people if the only people you see speaking for them happen to be insane. And even if they're not crazy, normal people aren't really going to be interested in communicating nuance or understanding if they're hastily firing off a missive during a toilet break.

There's a lot of reasons for this, but I think one of the big ones is that our intellectual institutions have given themselves over to internet troll logic, including many prestigious Op-Ed pages. In the past you might have encountered plenty of nuts, but you could also see similar enough versions of their ideas being advanced by people who could construct an argument that didn't rest entirely on motivated reasoning, and include enough nuance so as to not be monstrous. But at this point, many professional opinion havers aren't any better or more cogent than a regular Twitter troll. It's mostly just Frankfurtian bullshit all the way down.

Drezner actually has some really good ideas about the replacement of "public intellectuals" with "thought leaders" that touches on this dynamic. https://newrepublic.com/article/143004/rise-thought-leader-h...

>The rich have, Drezner writes, empowered a new kind of thinker—the “thought leader”—at the expense of the much-fretted-over “public intellectual.” Whereas public intellectuals like Noam Chomsky or Martha Nussbaum are skeptical and analytical, thought leaders like Thomas Friedman and Sheryl Sandberg “develop their own singular lens to explain the world, and then proselytize that worldview to anyone within earshot.” While public intellectuals traffic in complexity and criticism, thought leaders burst with the evangelist’s desire to “change the world.” Many readers, Drezner observes, prefer the “big ideas” of the latter to the complexity of the former. In a marketplace of ideas awash in plutocrat cash, it has become “increasingly profitable for thought leaders to hawk their wares to both billionaires and a broader public,” to become “superstars with their own brands, sharing a space previously reserved for moguls, celebrities, and athletes.”

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#249
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you propose to fix that? Should candidates only be allowed to make "true" statements?

So, before social media, this wasn't regulated by law, but it was to a large extent regulated by the media. Politicians didn't have a good way to lie directly to the public; their main avenue for lying to the public was via the media, which would tend to fact check them. There's a big difference between "candidate X says that pigs can fly and this is why that's wrong", and "The flying pigs above your house are bigly…

Rich people have always paid for the news, including and especially lying directly to the public.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#250

I am not from US, I hate FB during electoral campagins not because of paid ads but because of people sharing tons of political crap, I would like to hide all political post and shares of my friends and ads.

Funny, I only go on facebook to try and pierce my friends’ open political apathy.
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