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Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

bbc.co.uk

221–230 of 510 posts

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The targeted precision really is what's different. Your candidate can be N different single-issue candidates in a way that's just not possible without precise targeting. The "echo chambers" explanation, in particular, seems wrong. Echo chambers always existed.

> The "echo chambers" explanation, in particular, seems wrong. Echo chambers always existed. The echo chambers haven't gotten worse at all. They've become easier to observe in action and quantify, because social media is leaving a giant digital trail that everyone can observe (whereas previously the average person didn't leave much of a partisan trail/record for observation or study or reporting). The perception that…

I think there is a case to be made that it has gotten worse. For example, before social media a lot of social interaction happened in public areas with a more diverse group of people.

With social media you can pick and choose who you interact with, and what content you consume. To make things worse, companies use algorithms that are more likely to show you things you like and already agree with to increase engagement in their platform.

Additionally from my perspective, it seems society is reverting back to a sort of tribalism, where people identify with a specific group and are more and more unwilling to find common ground with one another or to even have respect for differing viewpoints. Things are only seen as black and white, and anyone that doesn't agree is wrong, and must be silenced.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#222
post #183
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can target Facebook ads with surgical precision to manipulate people exactly the way you want. This is exactly what Cambridge Analytica did. You cannot target people with such precision in traditional advertising. I don’t think it’s unfair to say social media advertising and data collection is the biggest risk to democracy that we have ever faced.

I think you might want to brush up on more recent news, because by now Cambridge Analytica’s data has been shown to have been mostly useless at meaningful targeting. Even the New York Times reported that Cambridge Analytica’s impact on the election of Donald Trump as president was overrated. https://stratechery.com/2018/the-facebook-brand/ From the article: “But a dozen Republican consultants and former Trump campaig…

I'm not contesting the conclusion.

But traditional media is incentivized to be biased against social media. So "even the NY Times" isn't particularly compelling. (Not to mention NYT is squarely center right, politically. "Left" of the GOP but not left in any meaningful sense.)

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#223
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfollow your friends that post boring partisan nonsense. Alternately, just delete your Facebook account, and stop donating content and ad revenue to a censorship platform.

I done that for some persons, and for people that post religious stuff daily. I hide all from them. But there could be a solution, like say I am a honest person that I want to get elected in a possition in my little village, can I post things and somehow mention to show it only for people that are in the same village as me, so my friends in other locations don't have to see the local stuff. I am not a big FB user, bu…

You have to have an email account to sign up for Facebook; if you wish to keep in touch with your old colleagues you can simply ask them for their email addresses. This is what I did when I quit Instagram.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#224
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can target Facebook ads with surgical precision to manipulate people exactly the way you want. This is exactly what Cambridge Analytica did. You cannot target people with such precision in traditional advertising. I don’t think it’s unfair to say social media advertising and data collection is the biggest risk to democracy that we have ever faced.

>This is exactly what Cambridge Analytica did The impact of Cambridge Analytica is so overstated that it crosses into hyperbole. They were a bunch of clowns with minimal impact that got magnified to a status of super-villain because you could use them to club Trump over the head with. And let's not lose sight of the big picture, namely before Trump accidentally won (yes, accidentally and barely), the Trump campaign w…

[flagged]

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why would you want it any other way? Democracy is messy. Sounds an awful lot like giving up to me. >Do you think activists stick to facts and data to prove their case? Almost never. There's a difference between "appeal to emotion" and spewing outright lies.

>Sounds an awful lot like giving up to me No! The opposite in fact! When Democracy is messy it means there's a lot of 'bumping' and 'turn' (to use some metaphors), unlike the sterile utopia that some push for, where everything is clean and specified and everyone follows a neat pattern (to use more metaphors). For example, I love how messy caucuses are, people are yelling and clamouring, convincing each other to join…

Chaos is way easier to game if your goal is to accentuate chaos to an extreme.

It's a mistake to think all competitors want a competitor they can trick into helping them. What if they just want to see their competition crumble?

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#226

I see where they are coming from, but this seems backwards to me. I would like to block all commercial ads, but it seems really important to me that people see political ads. Granted, the current campaigns in the US are messed up and most ads look like propaganda, but this is a narrow view of what politics can be. Because on the other hand, as a political activist I know how incredibly hard it is to get your message…

It's really important to you that other people see what kinds of ads you want them to see.

I just have to take a step back from this for a second, because I really, really dislike the concept that other people have decided that I need to be politically educated (and through Facebook ads, no less). Goodness. If you wish to view political ads, or adds for dog hair brushes, by all means, go for it. Do not attempt to force me to do so.

If you want to know where the assumption of sinister intentions comes from, read your comment again: you want to decide what I see.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#227

I see where they are coming from, but this seems backwards to me. I would like to block all commercial ads, but it seems really important to me that people see political ads. Granted, the current campaigns in the US are messed up and most ads look like propaganda, but this is a narrow view of what politics can be. Because on the other hand, as a political activist I know how incredibly hard it is to get your message…

> Why do we assume everybody in politics has sinister intentions?

Over the last 30+ years I've seen both parties flip flop on foreign military intervention, gay marriage, states rights, big government, judicial appointments, filibusters, corporate bailouts, government surveillance, militarizing the police, etc. and the list goes on. Both parties have been rhetorically and legislatively on both sides of these issues depending on their position of power.

The one thing that is consistent is that the two parties blame each other and the party that's out of power tries to complain and obstruct until they get back in power.

So, after a while it is easy to look at millions of donations following in to influence elections and the flip flop of positions and be skeptical of anyone who thinks they can affect change without changing the way government and elections ultimately work.

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#228

It's a good feature from an individual perspective. It's not a good feature if you don't like cultural bubbles forming. Democrats will block Republican ads, Republicans will block Democrat ads - will that lead to a better world when Republicans can't reach Democrat voters or vice versa? I find this focus (attack?) on political advertising on social media platforms by traditional media companies to be self-serving and…

I was in the social media team of one of the Democratic presidential candidates. I agree with you.

It's my belief that if you want to give a chance to lesser known candidates who are not backed by millionaires and powerful insiders, Facebook was the last option available.

I believe Facebook was one of the last services available to make our democracy more democratic.

I think this move by Facebook will make it so much harder for smaller candidates to have a chance now.

I know there is this perception that without Facebook ads Trump would have not won. I don't believe that at all.

I think Trump won first because of NBC and then because of CNN, ABC, etc. than because of any Facebook ads. Allow me to explain:

A - It was NBC that gave Trump years of national TV exposure and created this myth of this business mogul and business guru with his TV show the Apprentice. So people believed "Make America Great Again" was possible.

B - Trump got about $5billion in free media [0]. Because Trump and all his statements captured so much interests.

C - In 2016 election, about 8.5 million people who voted for Obama in 2012 voted for Trump and about 2.5 million of 2012 Romney voters voted for Hillary [1].

These 8.5 million 2012 Obama voters may or may not have been Fox viewers and as likely watched CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, local news (which are all affiliated).

Did you know the Democratic party will cancel working with you as an agency or entity if you work with any candidates that challenge any incumbents? [2]. Basically if you are a professional or entity doing email campaigns or other work and if you work for any non-incumbent you're basically gone and blacklisted. Are we okay with this? Facebook made it so easy for much smaller candidates with little resources to challenge the incumbents. Now this path is gone.

BTW, in the past 4 years or so Republicans have invested and built this enormousness voter database with email, sms and phone number targeting. I've seen screenshots of it. There are other entity who have built something similar at the DNC or will offer one to the Democrats at the right price. There is so much data out there outside of Facebook to target you.

If a candidate has the budget and all the resources he/she/they don't need facebook to get that kind of targeting.

I had the opportunity to evaluate various vendors and their pitches. What's available now out there outside of facebook is rather scary. Any candidate with large budget can target the audience they want it's the smaller ones who will be eliminated by this change.

Lastly, Trump won because of the message. Trump actually ran economically on the left of Hillary and socially on her right.

The kind of stuff like union jobs/workers protection, which used to be the platform of Democrats is what Trump ran on. Everyone talked about the wall, and racism. But many Americans who have been gradually marginalized and seeing every product that used to be made in USA was now coming from China and blaming their jobs lost to Mexico because of NAFTA wanted to hear Trump's message. I know for us in the Bay Area or in NY, this doesn't matter, but I believe it's because we are out of touch with the rest of the country. This is why I had predicted Trump win during GOP primary and his national win. I spoke with random people in various parts of the country. Once they felt comfortable with you, they had a positive view of Trump and how he would somehow come and rescue them. He fooled them, but the message resonated and Trump got $5 billion in free media coverage. That's why he won, because of the places like NBC, CNN, FOX, etc.

You can talk about the small narrow of victory by which Trump won places like Michigan and if Facebook wasn't there he would have not won. I'm not sure about that at all. I think this facebook narrative distracts from the bigger picture, which Trump won on the message that years ago was part of the Democratic platform and he got his message across for free using the mainstream media.

[0] https://www.thestreet.com/politics/donald-trump-rode-5-billi...

[1] http://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/just-how-m...

[2] https://theintercept.com/2019/03/22/house-democratic-leaders...

Re: Facebook to let users turn off political adverts

#230

It's a good feature from an individual perspective. It's not a good feature if you don't like cultural bubbles forming. Democrats will block Republican ads, Republicans will block Democrat ads - will that lead to a better world when Republicans can't reach Democrat voters or vice versa? I find this focus (attack?) on political advertising on social media platforms by traditional media companies to be self-serving and…

The problem is if you turn off all ads, you won't see any alternative points. I don't need Biden ads because I already will vote for Biden, so I turn off political ads. That's it I'm back in my bubble.

This is a cop-out for actually having to verify/review political ads.

Zuckerburg is really really good at the art of seeming like he is progressive but is empirically horrible for society.

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