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Operating a Tor Relay

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Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#51
post #45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. I thought of it as "is one person escaping an authoritarian regime to communicate freely worth more or less than ten people buying drugs?". A criminal will always find another way to engage in criminal activities, but can a news reporter or activist find another safe way to communicate? I felt as though the benefits to users using tor for legitimate purposes, outweighed the users who used tor maliciously…

I'd be less concerned about drugs and more about human trafficking or child pornography.

Purely speculation but I strongly suspect the subset of malicious tor users engaging in child pornography and human trafficking is extremely, extremely small. The largest group of malicious users is most likely drug and cybercrime related. Is it worth decrying tor as a heaven for pedophiles or human traffickers if they make up a negligible number of users? If so, the same could easily be said about bitcoin or any other decentralised cryptocurrency. The benefits given to journalists, activists, or any individual who wants anonymity for the sake of pricacy is worth more, to me, than maybe helping a negligible number of users. Further, those malicious users would likely find another way to engage in their activities but could the legitimate users?

Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#52

I have a lot of bandwidth but don't want to spend money on hosting. Has anyone successfully hosted on rasberry pi ?

Sure, as long as it meets the minimum requirements you can operate a node. If you are running it at home, I strongly recommend you don't run an exit node but that's up to you. If you want an easy setup, a bootstrap script does exist: https://github.com/mricon/tor-relay-bootstrap-rpi

Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#53
post #48
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And probably 19 out of 20 of those despicable purposes involve buying weed edibles and shrooms.

But if the 20th is used for child pornography or human trafficking it might not matter that the other 19th just want to get high.

People use the regular internet for "nefarious" purposes. Should we not support the internet? Cars are used to haul human traffic victims, do we ban cars? How about electricity? It powers everything now, the internet, even cars, do we ban that too? People will find ways to do bad shit in every medium and that doesn't mean the medium is bad.

Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#54
Why you need balls of steel to operate a tor exit node: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2009-Septemb...

Why you need balls of steel to operate a Tor exit node

By calumog

I became interested in Tor in the spring of 2007 after reading about the situation in Burma and felt that I would like to do something, anything, to help. As a geek and lover of the internet it seemed the best thing I could do was to run Tor as an exit node to allow those under jurisdictions that censor the internet free access to the information they need. I had a lot of unused bandwidth and it seemed like a philanthropic use of it to donate that to Tor.

Tor is a system of anonymizing proxy servers which allows you to visit resources on the web, not just web sites, without revealing your ip address. This is extremely useful for those who are compromised in their access to the internet because it means, rather than attempting to connect directly to the resource in question, say Wikipedia, which might be filtered by their government, they connect to a Tor relay which ultimately routes the request to the resource in question via an exit node. Exit nodes are special kinds of relays which proffer the request on behalf of the original client revealing their ip address, not that of the original requestor, to the destination resource. I sometimes imagine how exciting it must be for soemone in Burma, say, or China, to load up Tor and browse to a web site they have never been able to see before. And to know that there is nothing, nothing, that reveals who it really is who is visiting.

I totally believe in Tor. I think it is a magnificent force for the circumvention of internet censorship but there is a problem. I was visited by the police in November 2008 because my ip address had turned up in the server logs of a site offering, or perhaps trading in (I was not told the details of the offence) indecent images of children. The date of the offence was about one month after I started the server so it looks as though the site in question had been under surveillance for more than a year. It was what is known as a ‘dawn raid’ and, amazingly enough, my children were still asleep when it occured. Thank God. I explained to the officers, who we had heard threatening to break the door down before we let them in, about Tor but they had never heard of it. My wife says she thinks they were about to arrest me before that. I was not arrested. I was told not to touch the computer and it was placed, considerately, in a black plastic bag and taken away for forensic examination. I was OK at first. I knew that somebody had gone through my server to access that material and that I was not guilty of any offence but as the weeks wore on it started to get to me.

I was overwhelmed by horror to be implicated in such a thing. I was desperately worried about my family. One of the officers had told my wife that Social Services would be informed as a matter of course and there was a possibility that my children would be taken into care. The low point came about two weeks after the visit by the police when I totalled my car. I was distracted, stressed and unable to accurately assess the road conditions. I ploughed into a hedgerow at speed, destroying the car which we had just bought, but, luckily, walked out of it with only bruised ribs. I didn’t have the money to hire a lawyer so I just sat the thing out. From time to time the police called with an estimate of when the investigation would be finished but none of that meant very much because those dates came and passed with no resolution.

Eventually, four months after the visit, I picked up a voice message from the police inviting me to call back. When I called I was told that no evidence had been retrieved and the machine would be returned to me. I think, in retrospect, I was desperately naive to run a Tor exit server on a home computer but I didn’t believe that an ip address in a server log would be enough evidence to warrant seizing equipment. My wife, God bless her, was absolutely marvellous throughout the whole thing and never doubted me. I have read with interest about the need to make Tor faster and that that largely depends on having more nodes but there is no way I can contemplate offering my ip address as a service to internet anonymity any more. It was very frightening for me to be implicated in a serious crime. As a parent of very young children I have an extensive network of friends and contacts in my neighbourhood who also have children. As we know the subject of paedophilia is not one that can be debated with any rationality at all in the UK. It is surrounded by hysteria. I was terrified that people would find out that my computer had been taken because of that – ‘no smoke without fire’. I don’t know what can be done about any of this. To my mind running an exit node is extremely high risk. I think Tor is important but I don’t have any ideas about how to support it at the moment.

Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#55
post #43
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is one of the reasons why in Germany a registered association named "Zwiebelfreunde e.V." (can be translated to "Onion friends") was founded. By this it is a legal entity and legal trouble can be handled better than if its against a person but the members of the board still gets trouble with the law. Not long ago they were raided because they were treated as witnesses in a case. (Yes, in Germany even as…

Not just in Germany. US providers can also be forced to hand over data to be used in cases against others. It's just usually not done with a raid since providers will turn over data when asked.

Just for context: This is relativly new in Germany. In 2017 there was a change which has as consequences

- witnesses _have to_ appear in person if requested (by police or DA)

- witnesses _have to_ make statements regarding the case at hand

This is quite a nice tool if you lack moral. You might request the suspect to appear as a witness and try to leverage the new requirements to make the suspect reveal damaging information.

Maybe this was the reason that Germany was mentioned before.

Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#56

Tor is a project I want to like and support, but can’t. I feel (and I have no evidence) that for every 1 person using it to protect their privacy, 20 are using it for despicable purposes. I would love to be proved wrong on this. I don’t want to shut it down, but at the same time I don’t feel I can personally or technically support it.

e-crimes are victimless crimes

Sometimes there are victims. https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2020/06/12/facebook-paid-fo...

Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#57
post #45
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. I thought of it as "is one person escaping an authoritarian regime to communicate freely worth more or less than ten people buying drugs?". A criminal will always find another way to engage in criminal activities, but can a news reporter or activist find another safe way to communicate? I felt as though the benefits to users using tor for legitimate purposes, outweighed the users who used tor maliciously…

I'd be less concerned about drugs and more about human trafficking or child pornography.

There are a bunch of similar projects where such people could (and likely already are) move: I2P, Freenet, GNUnet, and probably some others. So closing (or not supporting) Tor just because some bad actors are there is pointless. Every tool can be used for both good and bad things.

Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are thousands of VPS hosters, not a few.

How many of those VPS hosters rely on infrastructure from OVH, Hetzner, ColoCrossing, Azure, AWS, or GCP?

> OVH, Hetzner, ColoCrossing

Maybe a third or so?

> Azure, AWS, or GCP?

0.1% at best

Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#59
post #55
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just in Germany. US providers can also be forced to hand over data to be used in cases against others. It's just usually not done with a raid since providers will turn over data when asked.

Just for context: This is relativly new in Germany. In 2017 there was a change which has as consequences - witnesses _have to_ appear in person if requested (by police or DA) - witnesses _have to_ make statements regarding the case at hand This is quite a nice tool if you lack moral. You might request the suspect to appear as a witness and try to leverage the new requirements to make the suspect reveal damaging infor…

Do you have a source for that and/or an article where they elaborate on the implications of those changes?

Re: Operating a Tor Relay

#60
I ran a exit relay outbound over a VPN Tunnel for its internet access, I was mostly just interested in what kind of traffic people are doing. (Its one of the downfalls of Tor, the Exit Nodes are prone to sniffing) and the sheer amount of porn was amazing.
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