For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business • Hacker News Board

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#551

Post by dang » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:54 AM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #427

dang wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN reflects the society at large, so of course it proves the article right in that sense. Otherwise the article wouldn't be about the world. Any divisive topic is going to show up as divisive in any large-enough population sample. But there are at least as many comments pointing the opposite way—more, in fact, but we tend to notice the ones we dislike, and to weight them more heavily: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRang…

Some message boards solve this issue by letting posters specify their location as a field in their profile (and displaying a flag under the username, etc.). Not advocating this for HN, just pointing out how that gets solved by other communities (weak profile differentiation is part of the appeal of HN, but also a magnifier for these issues).

We wouldn't display flags—textiness is a core principle here—but if people felt like a location field in profiles might help ease misunderstandings, that's something we might do. Would most users fill it out though? I'm kind of doubtful. More at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23547013

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#552

Post by forgot_user1234 » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:59 AM UTC

churchillracist wrote: post #515

forgot_user1234 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn't this ever happen to indian ceos. Sundar, Satya, ibm's ceo, or bazillion other companies

It happened to Sundar. There was an incident at a tech conference where he was walking through the booths and some people started asking for selfies with him. The "booth guy" who had condescending look grabbed Sundar's nametag slightly tugging on his neck without requesting his permission to see who he was. People were shocked at how rude the physical contact was. More ought to have been made of that. That booth guy…

I haven't heard about this incident BUT it still doesn't shows why there are so many indian CEOs.

I really doubt that it's the norm.

Look at the numbers not the anecdotes.

There are disproportionate number of Indian CEOs. It would have been impossible with racism and what not.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#553

Post by elbear » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 9:01 AM UTC

JustinVx wrote: post #478

johnisgood wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But inferring that someone isn't the CEO because they're black? I'm sorry, but that's racism pure and simple. If I were to meet/know/whatever 100 CEOs and 99% of them were not black and for example wore an expensive suit in a specific setting/environment, then is it racist to assume (based on my past experiences) that a particular black person wearing an expensive suit in this particular setting/environment is not…

You’re making a value judgement based on skin color. That’s racism. Even if you don’t have bad intentions, the black person in your example suffers because of it.

So if a black person suffers from an act committed by a non-black person then that was an act of racism?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#554

Post by toyg » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 9:06 AM UTC

bmn__ wrote: post #525

brabel wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very fact they find it necessary to use a different word to describe themselves, "expats", than what they call foreigners who live in their countries, "immigrants", shows that they do not at all consider themselves to be in any way similar. I've lived as part of a minority in other countries for half of my life. I try as much as I can to blend in, not because I think they are superior, but because I want to learn…

> The very fact they find it necessary to use a different word to describe themselves, "expats", than what they call foreigners who live in their countries, "immigrants", shows that they do not at all consider themselves to be in any way similar. I was taught these are two words for different concepts. An immigrant expects to take permanent residence in a foreign country, an expatriate – temporarily. The former doing…

> I was taught these are two words for different concepts.

These are stories we tell ourselves to persuade us we're not "like them".

Unsurprisingly, it's a term invented by the British Empire, when people with no prospects in the motherland (like George Orwell) would move to the colonies to make their fortune but wouldn't dream for a second of ever "going native". The amount of time they ended up spending there, or whether they even came back at all, was irrelevant.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#555

Post by BerislavLopac » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 9:07 AM UTC

hanspeter wrote: post #488

js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

> I also never realized what it must feel like to be a Christian in America until I visited Israel for the first time I'm pretty sure white atheists in America feel equally among "my people" as Christians do (unless they're in a church or other highly religious surroundings). It's also an odd comparison as religion is a choice, where race or ethnicity is not.

Technically, religion is a choice; but in practice it is usually as much a choice as one's native language. People who are lucky to grow up with access to scientific education and varied cultural awareness are more easily able to choose the religion they want (if any); but many people (I would dare say the majority, on the global scale) are only exposed to a single, often very narrow mindset heavily defined by "religion" (to which one can include formally non-religious mindsets, like anti-vaxxers for example). For them, it takes a lot of effort to change their initial programming, assuming they ever get a chance at it.

As for ethnicity, while again technically it is not a "choice", I'm not really sure it can be clearly defined. A friend was mine was born in Italy to British parents, his wife was Bosnian and two of their children were born in the US -- what is their ethnicity?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 9:09 AM UTC

typon wrote: post #418

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical about Robin Diangelo, I read her book a few months ago, and it only seems to be an advertisement for her services as an anti-racist instructor. Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. There are much better books for foun…

It's really telling how during this entire BLM revival, white people have been recommending this particular book - written by a white author. Even in the midst of a racial awareness campaign, black voices are muffled.

[deleted]

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#557

Post by eloisant » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 9:10 AM UTC

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #494

dgb23 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. This is a huge part of the problem isn't it? I believe these painful interactions would be much less common if tech culture were more diverse in the first place. Women share a similar fate. Whenever I hear some of these stories I cringe. Some of them are surprising/shocking even. But this seems important. Hearing those storie…

> This is a huge part of the problem isn't it? I think this is the problem. Say a black guy with gold teeth, tons of tattoos and colorful dreadlocks and a middle aged white guy walk in. One of them is a rapper. Who is it? Based on experience, most people will certainly assume the black guy is. What if it turns out it’s the white guy? Are they unconsciously racist against white people or are they just following experi…

It certainly makes sense to assume (in your head) the black guy is a rapper, and the white guy is a tech CEO.

But when you know how it makes people feel when you make your assumption visible, you understand the need to act like anyone could be the CEO, the developer, etc. Same goes for women devs who at tech conferences who are too often "assumed" to be girlfriends, recruiters or other non-tech participants.

Yes, the problem will solve itself if black people in tech become more common - but:

1. it's not going to get solved if we make them feel out of place in tech by always assuming they're "the wrong guy".

2. let's try not to make the life harder to the very few black people (and other minorities) who are already in tech?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#558

Post by ShroudedNight » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 9:14 AM UTC

hanspeter wrote: post #488

js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

> I also never realized what it must feel like to be a Christian in America until I visited Israel for the first time I'm pretty sure white atheists in America feel equally among "my people" as Christians do (unless they're in a church or other highly religious surroundings). It's also an odd comparison as religion is a choice, where race or ethnicity is not.

> ...as religion is a choice...

It's not clear to me what aspects of religion would be obvious candidates for being described as a 'choice'. Personally, the fundamental aspects seem to operate as primal psychological forces, and overt action in contravention to them rapidly erodes things like confidence and self-esteem, while increasing things like anxiety. Every once in a while, people will definitely work against those pressures, but I would expect that behaviour to be unsustainable in the long term for the vast majority.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#559

Post by toyg » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 9:15 AM UTC

nicolas_t wrote: post #486

freddie_mercury wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. You would be surprised at how pervasive and long-lasting majority privilege can be. I live in Southeast Asia where foreigners are a very distinct minority and they experience all kinds of hardships. Difficulties making (local) friends, difficulties dea…

Anecdotal but I've lived in different Asian countries for the last 15 years and my experience is that expats who live in compounds geared toward their nationality, never eat local food and never bothered to learn the local language tend to also be very racist. You'll hear them non-stop complaining about the locals or making sarcastic comments about them, about them having no manners, not speaking English properly (ir…

As a migrant myself (although white-on-white, so to speak), I understand where they are coming from. I think I've actually come to value my "original culture" more highly, after more than a decade abroad, despite having integrated pretty comprehensively into local customs.

Nostalgia is a powerful and irrational sentiment. It doesn't excuse the racism, of course, but I can understand why it would reinforce it.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#560

Post by kgwgk » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

wbronitsky wrote: post #38

oh_sigh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also somehow places black and indigenous people as not "people of color"(I assume they aren't counting white indigenous people like the Sami).

I'm trying to be as inclusive as I can be, and I have been told that BIPOC is an inclusive term. If there is a better term here, please let me know so I can use it. I was discussing American society in particular, so the Sami might not be relevant. Either way, it would be nice if we could look at my comment as doing what I can to not be offensive, instead of nitpicking an argument that is clearly trying. Instead of t…

I'm curious, would you say it includes Arabs, Persians and Jews?