For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business • Hacker News Board

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#531

Post by jacobush » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:23 AM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #423

TeaDrunk wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn’t it also important to appropriately identify and address the most disenfranchised group when we want to talk about how to help systemic violations of human rights? I mean, if I was debugging something and ignored the segfault because it only happened in one piece of the code, and I only solve bugs that apply to the entire codebase, I’d be a shit engineer

> isn’t it also important to appropriately identify and address the most disenfranchised group when we want to talk about how to help systemic violations of human rights? Back in the 1960s, yes, that was a reasonable approach, and we took it. In your coding analogy, we believed there was a specific bug and started applying patches to address it. But we've been doing that for more than half a century now and it hasn't…

I think you have both generic problems and module specific problems.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#532

Post by imtringued » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:24 AM UTC

twybriny wrote: post #220

zasz wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systematic exclusion of black people from social programs, like the GI Bill and Social Security, and redlining, which prevented black Americans from building up wealth through homeownership the way white Americans were. "The Color of Law" is a good book on redlining. To expand on the bit about Social Security, farmworkers were excluded, since farmworkers tend to be not white. It was a nice sneaky way to be racist wit…

One of the things that confuses me quite a bit is the focus on laws that expired or have been abrogated 50-60-70-150 years ago and make it as if everything wrong with contemporary American society is caused directly by such laws and nothing else. * GI Bill: adopted in 1944, expired in 1956. * Social Security: adopted in 1935, unclear what the impacts were at the time. Unclear what the impacts are today. * Redlining:…

Maybe you don't understand it because its so obvious to you but your "solution" basically involves all black people becoming migrants (at least within the borders of the US) and starting from scratch again. Now lets assume this is the perfect solution. Why would this method be so effective? What leaves black people and the communities they live in in such a bad condition that they have to get away from it? It takes dedication and effort over multiple decades to create a long lasting bad environment via bad political policies. By that same logic it will take a long time to recover from it if there is no dedication and effort put into recovery. Sure, migration is a quick way out for an individual but it's not a solution that scales to an entire population.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#533

Post by jacobush » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:24 AM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #411

fzeroracer wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't solve systematic inequality until we solve the inequality black people face. You want to broaden the topic but by doing so, you're erasing all nuance and approaches for solving a problem.

> We can't solve systematic inequality until we solve the inequality black people face. You're looking at it backwards. The inequality black people face is systematic inequality. (I would argue that it's actually as much based on culture and poverty as on race.) But you can't fix it by focusing on the racial aspect of it. You have to focus on the systematic aspect, because that's the root problem. > You want to broad…

I hear that a lot, were blacks really better off living under Jim Crow than they are today?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#534

Post by taurath » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:26 AM UTC

freddie_mercury wrote: post #386

js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

> I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. You would be surprised at how pervasive and long-lasting majority privilege can be. I live in Southeast Asia where foreigners are a very distinct minority and they experience all kinds of hardships. Difficulties making (local) friends, difficulties dea…

Some folks travel to experience the world and be a part of it. Some travel to be like a visiting royal, to be treated their due of all of the exotic experiences.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#535

Post by javieranton » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:29 AM UTC

bmn__ wrote: post #525

brabel wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very fact they find it necessary to use a different word to describe themselves, "expats", than what they call foreigners who live in their countries, "immigrants", shows that they do not at all consider themselves to be in any way similar. I've lived as part of a minority in other countries for half of my life. I try as much as I can to blend in, not because I think they are superior, but because I want to learn…

> The very fact they find it necessary to use a different word to describe themselves, "expats", than what they call foreigners who live in their countries, "immigrants", shows that they do not at all consider themselves to be in any way similar. I was taught these are two words for different concepts. An immigrant expects to take permanent residence in a foreign country, an expatriate – temporarily. The former doing…

Expat = white/pale skin immigrant. Racial entitlement continues to this day. Notice how only white people ever choose to consider themselves to be "expats"

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#536

Post by thu2111 » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:29 AM UTC

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #248

greenhatglack wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of money to be made in "anti-racism" and "gender-science", especially in tax-heavy countries. No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income. I'll be contrarian and recommend Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" instead.

I'm skeptical of any American "Libertarian" especially when it comes to race. Sowell is a class-reductionist, which would make him a terrible pick for this topic.

So it's not really about race, then, but about politics all along? I think you'd agree with Sowell a lot more than you imagine in that case!

Sowell has the advantage of being black, which makes his view closer to home than the vast majority of anti-racism activists, who seem to frequently be white people telling other white people what black people find offensive (see: comments on the GitHub master/main discussions).

Sowell also ends up on the receiving end of genuine racism, at least according to his own claims, in particular racism of the form "why are you conservative and telling black people to solve your own problems when you're black?", as if being black actually requires him to be on the left, or makes him some sort of race traitor if he isn't.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#537

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:30 AM UTC

somethoughts wrote: post #82

chongli wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trouble here is the double meaning of the word racist. When some people hear the word, they think of cross-burning fanatics and mass murderers. On the other hand, the current big conversation is about how everyone is racist and that society is rife with systemic racism. That creates a catch-22 for anyone who commits a faux-pas (like mistaking the black CEO for a subordinate). Either admit to racism and ca…

Yes - perhaps if the current big conversation was rephrased as "everyone is biased and that society is rife with systemic bias" - people would be more willing to agree that its a problem and agree that they are part of the problem and would be more willing to be involved in solving it. To be honest - everyone, no matter who they are, makes judgements and has biases.

Racism is a form of bias, propably the nastiest one. And that is why you pick one particular for f bias when you start fighting it. Just lumping racism in with other forms of bias, while not factually wrong, is only helping the status quo.

And it seems that majority of people is supporting the current protests and BLM movement.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#538

Post by dsign » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:30 AM UTC

Where I live, it's not that uncommon to found a tech company and step down as the "nominal" CEO a few months later to put in place a white guy—the right shade of white—who fits the expectations of customers and partners. The original founder may still be the one making executive decisions, but he/she is not the public face anymore.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#539

Post by imtringued » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:33 AM UTC

Auracle wrote: post #299

agar wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't weigh in from personal experience, but I look at it like a marathon. One set of runners face a first half of the race with mud, crushed glass, vertical climbs, and other obstacles, while other racers had a nice tailwind and extra drink stations. Regardless of the obstacles faced in the second half (which are still more numerous than the competition's), can't you understand why runners would still look back at…

You could also argue that the large majority of black people still alive came in to the race halfway through as well. At some point it just becomes an excuse. Constantly blaming other people is a good way to never have any self improvement.

Obviously the best way to get out of a bad situation is to help yourself first. The hardest part of this problem cannot be solved by outsiders but outsiders can certainly prevent progress if they put their minds to it. If you are a victim of discrimination then you must demonstrate through your own power that you you can succeed despite the discrimination. If you depend on help from others then you may not be taken seriously and you might never learn to help yourself.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#540

Post by hef19898 » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 8:35 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #73

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I think the trouble here is the double meaning of the word racist. When some people hear the word, they think of cross-burning fanatics and mass murderers. On the other hand, the current big conversation is about how everyone is racist and that society is rife with systemic racism. That creates a catch-22 for anyone who commits a faux-pas (like mistaking the black CEO for a subordinate). Either admit to racism and ca…

If it is a faux-pas, an immediate excuss is the solution. At least for mature people. There is no explicit racism involved in the CEO example, as long as you treated both persons decently and politely and only misjudged the ranks.

The sex offender thing looks a lot like a straw man argument, so. When I think about racists, yes KK Nazis and so on come to mind. But more often I think about the daily, systematic racism white folks show towars people of colour, migrants, other religions. More often than not accompanied by discriminating women and the LGBTQ community.