For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business • Hacker News Board

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#441

Post by SenHeng » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:33 AM UTC

freddie_mercury wrote: post #386

js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

> I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. You would be surprised at how pervasive and long-lasting majority privilege can be. I live in Southeast Asia where foreigners are a very distinct minority and they experience all kinds of hardships. Difficulties making (local) friends, difficulties dea…

Have you ever tried pointing out the obliviousness to your German friend?

I'am an ethnic Chinese living in Japan and essentially blend in. I've also spoken with a lot of other expats, often white who complain a lot about (sometimes positive) discrimination and just once, rather offhandedly, I replied that now you know what it feels like to be a minority. The instant reaction is to become defensive, but after a while, the bulb lights up.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#442

Post by SenHeng » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:38 AM UTC

gfxgirl wrote: post #331

js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

Where do you live? I have no idea what it's like to be Jewish but I have Jewish friends and have had Jewish bosses. I couldn't tell them apart from any other white people in the area. If they hadn't told me they were Jewish I'd never have known nor cared. I certainly didn't treat them different. At what point are we all just different? I can't meet people that are into my particular hobby. I also go to clubs and bars…

I think it's very subtle stuff, an example may be having kosher food being the default.

When living in Singapore, I used to make the faux pas of mixing together Muslim food (no pork), Indian food (no beef) and Chinese food (lots of pork/beef) together.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#443

Post by 1123581321 » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:39 AM UTC

cheez wrote: post #251

scarface74 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asian women being taken as an authority figure? Heck, anecdotally they can’t even be seen as developers . I have an Asian friend/former coworker. Anytime that we would all go to a local conference they would assume she was QA.

I have a friend who runs a team and hires according to these lines: - Management: Europeans - Coding: Russians - QA: Indians He will not consider that he might be wrong here.

There is a somewhat popular, entirely legal version of that created by western companies hiring outsourcing companies for different functions.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#444

Post by zapita » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #73

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I think the trouble here is the double meaning of the word racist. When some people hear the word, they think of cross-burning fanatics and mass murderers. On the other hand, the current big conversation is about how everyone is racist and that society is rife with systemic racism. That creates a catch-22 for anyone who commits a faux-pas (like mistaking the black CEO for a subordinate). Either admit to racism and ca…

The problem you describe, of the double meaning of the term “racism”, is very real, but only among white people. When communicating with a Black CEO, you can safely assume that they understand the true meaning of the term, from experiencing it every day. And as a result will appreciate the admission and apology. The second mistake to avoid is to not expect a medal, so to speak, for doing the bare minimum. In my experience that is a common pattern: demonstrating a basic understanding of systemic racism, then expecting to be treated as a hero for it - then being disappointed when we’re (understandably) not. Sometimes this can be quite exhausting to someone targeted by racism, because it adds to their mental burden instead of lightening it.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#445

Post by aarpmcgee » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:01 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #417

ravenstine wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's also problematic because the workplace inherently has an underlying adversarial quality that can provide a never-ending supply of "microaggressions" and various forms of otherings that effectively sow more division than actually get non-whites anywhere. The autho…

> It's also problematic because the workplace inherently has an underlying adversarial quality that can provide a never-ending supply of "microaggressions" Its also the only place in adulthood where people willingly or unwillingly must work together with people different than them and not necessarily of their choosing to reach a common goal.

The only place?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#446

Post by cycomanic » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:02 AM UTC

This is somewhat tangential to the article, but I've written about this previously. I think a big first step would be to stop talking about race for different skin colours.

I'm always surprised that "race" is so commonly adopted in conversations even by campaigners against racism, as a European I always cringe. The term implies a genetic difference where there isn't any and thus contributes to systematic racism/discrimination IMO, words do matter.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#447

Post by nitwit005 » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:03 AM UTC

charlesu wrote: post #365

sfj wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is hundreds of years of slavery and institutional discrimination specifically target toward blacks and all the accompanying cultural baggage. Part of that baggage is a deeply ingrained suggestion that black people are intellectually inferior but innately athletic. How can you say this with complete certainty? How could you ever be sure?

My argument is that history matters. You're welcome to argue otherwise.

That's kind of a non-response isn't it? The way things are is always determined by the events that came before. It doesn't mean you've correctly identified the right events.

I think it's easy to point at something like slavery as the underlying cause, but Europeans had no issue looking down on blacks before they had the idea to import them to the new world as slaves, and Europe adopted similar attitudes toward blacks with no slaves present.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#448

Post by charliebrownau » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

Maybe blacks should start a

black only town

with black business's

with black farming

with black manfactoring

with black offices

This way they cant play the victim and blame non black people for failing

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#449

Post by charliebrownau » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:08 AM UTC

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #355

throwaway_jobs wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m in Australia and I think these are largely US concepts. Based on that statement alone I think I can accurately conclude you are not an indigenous Australian (aboriginal). Seems they share quiet a lot in common with native Americans from stealing of their lands/displacement, mass killings, enslavement By colonists, to ongoing racism that continues to carry on today.

I’m not indigenous. I said we have to combat racism. I never said there are not similarities with what indigenous people went through. But it seems racism in the US has a lot of deeper cultural implications so they came up with anti-racism. Australia needs to figure out what equality means to us and make our own cultural changes. Not copy the US.

[dead]

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#450

Post by blub » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 5:08 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #416

Reedx wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your skepticism is well warranted. Unfalsifiable theory, dogma you can't question, purity tests, good vs evil, original sin, heresy, excommunication, self-flagellation and so on... It's a religion and Kafkatrap, but not yet widely recognized as such. Further explanation: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/intellectual-fraud-robin-d... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/why-third-... https://www.wsj.com/…

Newdiscourses seems to be a website dedicated /entirely/ to taking down the author and the book. A sampling of their articles over the past 2 weeks: "In Defense of the Status Quo" "White Silence is NOT Violence" "A Principled Statement of Opposition to Critical Race Theory" "Eight Big Reasons Critical Race Theory is Terrible for Dealing with Racism" Further investigation shows the site owner, James Lindsay makes his…

In order to have a complete picture, one also has to ask which "foo/bar dominated" cultures are inclusive if white/male dominated ones aren't.

As far as I'm aware, the majority population in any country, irrespective of skin color is intolerant to various degrees toward minorities, ranging from genocide and internment camps to harassment and minor discrimination.

The US is certainly not leader of the pack, but not exactly terrible either, when one looks at the constant amount of outrage. It seems to me that a group of people in the US concerned about the topic of race in their country is projecting its distorted view of things on the planet and has furthermore chosen an approach which is doomed to fail. Good luck with that, but maybe this time the US could try to not also damage the rest of the world in the process of fighting a war on abstract nouns.

Edit:

Someone in a nuked comment said "Why on earth does one have to make a broad comparison of cultures to rank badness at racism before dealing with this instance? And are you saying 'inclusion' is quantitative or something? "

Because by doing this comparison one can check if the problem of bias is universal (yep) and ingrained (yep), therefore suggesting that focusing on black vs. white in the US is counterproductive. Instead we should do research into individual and systemic biases and see how those could be kept under control.

Punishing individuals is hilariously bad. In fact there's a direct parallel between this and safety engineering, where clueless organizations will punish an employee which made a mistake while they continue to lumber from incident to incident.