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Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

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Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#531

Post by aiisahik »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #504
aiisahik wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You accuse my argument ala the "Satya-Sundar fallacy" as specious because I use a few cherry picked examples to demonstrate demonstrate a general fact that isn't true? Also you suggest that language fluency might be a factor? Read the study [1]. Here's an abstract: > Across nine studies (n = 11,030) using mixed methods (archival analyses of chief executive officers, field surveys in large US companies, student leader…

> You accuse my argument ala the "Satya-Sundar fallacy" as specious because I use a few cherry picked examples to demonstrate demonstrate a general fact that isn't true? Accuse is a strong word, but basically yes. Maybe it's a visceral reaction to something I have hear one too many times, that Asians don't face discrimination in tech because "Look at Satya and Sundar" (not exactly what you said). But the point is tha…

Are Asians treated worse during promotions because (1) the color of their skin / physical appearance (2) the confucian values (lack of assertiveness) of the individual (3) the stereotype of confucian values (lack of assertiveness) of Asians in general

I think it's more (2) and (3) than (1). It's hard being Asian - you have the weight of all other Asians practicing confucian values dragging you down.

Time to get rid of those values - If not for yourself then for others who don't want to be weighed down by the stereotype.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#532

Post by skinnymuch »

helen___keller wrote: post #330
wait_a_minute wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't generalizing a political stance, but summarizing the dominant narrative given to us by the media and what I call the new American left. If the narrative was mostly about economic status, we would hear more about that and about universal programs. Rather than disparities and identity politics.

> If the narrative was mostly about economic status, we would hear more about that and about universal programs Like.... Universal healthcare? One of the most (perhaps THE most) discussed topics at democratic presidential debates? Just because neither Bernie nor Elizabeth Warren didn't win the nomination doesn't mean that their ideas aren't part of the left.

I thought Warren backed away from full Universal for all Health insurance. From my outside look, it didn’t appear as if Warren was actually that progressive. One random example — endorsing Biden (and Hillary which possibly is about identity politics) were both political moves not seeming to be of someone close to a progressive like Bernie.

—

Many poorer people already get Medicaid which is quite good. If that was expanded a bit more to slightly higher incomes and [conservatives] states couldn’t deny so many people who should get it. That would be many times cheaper than Medicare for all. It would help the most marginalized.

Millions of people on good Medicaid right now could actually see their health insurance worsen under some universal health measures.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#533

Post by skinnymuch »

Barracoon wrote: post #379
wait_a_minute wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about those? Definitely not the new American left.

The "new American left" wants universal health care, college education, housing, and a clean environment. All of those issues affect lower-income whites just as much as any other racial group.

Nearly 2/3 of Americans don’t graduate college. There’s many reasons for that. Money is not the only reason nor likely the primary reason.

Free college education will not help the marginalized anywhere close to as it will others.

We essentially don’t even have free high school. If a teen has work a full time job or more while attending high school to support their family. That’s awful. That should be tackled before something as status quo as free college.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#534

Post by skinnymuch »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #329
iagovar wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds bad if you're a white non-rich kid.

Also a PoC non-rich kid. My wife's students in an inner-city school serving a mostly immigrant populace are not going to write fine-sounding essays about their time volunteering in Haiti, because they're working at Starbucks instead of volunteering in Haiti. Hell, their parents came from Haiti.

The high school I went to, one of the two towns is regularly in one of those big magazines too 50 most affluent/best zip codes. I don’t know any one off the top of my head bedsides 2 possible people who did any thing like that in HS.

Yes, vast majority did not have to work while going to HS (which is possibly why some angles toward free HS should be focused on. Not free college). But they also weren’t freely going to Haiti.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#535

Post by stevens32 »

torstenvl wrote: post #529
Barracoon wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "new American left" wants universal health care, college education, housing, and a clean environment. All of those issues affect lower-income whites just as much as any other racial group.

Universal college education is a huge disadvantage to lower-income people of all races and ethnicities, especially those in rural areas.

Wait.. what? Mind explaining this?

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#536

Post by memexy »

aiisahik wrote: post #530
memexy wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I went to Berkeley for grad school. Now I am a CTO at a company looking at resumes. I would hire a Berkeley grad over an ivy grad ANY day because I know how competitive and difficult the STEM programs at Berkeley are. How many Berkley grads have you hired and have you tracked their actual job performance?

None. I've not hired many ivy grads either. Competition for devs is still hot and i've only been able to hire from community colleges.

And how are they performing?

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#537

Post by memexy »

magicsmoke wrote: post #286
aiisahik wrote: post #242

As an Asian who went to an Ivy, I welcome this change. Yes, it will mask a policy of keeping the proportion of Asians lower than a race neutral policy. Yes, it's racially discriminatory. Yes, it's somewhat unfair to Asians who are trying to get in. But no, being fair isn't the point of these schools. Nor is having the most academically excellent student population. If you want that, go to Berkeley or CalTech. The poi…

Yep, Asians need to learn how to play the race politics card. All those white politicians didn't get into the white house because they had good grades, but because they knew how to play to the crowd. In a democratic society, if you don't know how to get others to like you you'll always be screwed by someone who does. Remember, the employee that gets promoted isn't the one that works the hardest, but the one that thei…

What benefit would there be to someone that adopts your proposed philosophy?

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#538

Post by aiisahik »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #515
aiisahik wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, it's the prestige of the social club that gives them credibility - not the academic excellence of its students. The students who have mediocre grades but very rich parents actually might actually have a better chance at success and bring more prestige to the university than the academically excellent student who have poor parents.

That might be too much of a reduction. You need academically successful members of your institution to get eye-popping headlines like "X discovered at University Y". Those PR pieces are partially responsible for the prestige. Concur on the point of family wealth helping institutions.

"X discovered at University Y" happens in graduate schools - not at the undergraduate level. And when you're admitting students in graduate school (excluding MBA and JD), you want the most academically successful members. There is no affirmative action for the physics Ph.D program at Harvard.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#539

Post by not_a_moth »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #136
not_a_moth wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone intimate with Germany's vocational training system, that's used as an alternative to college by approximately half of all graduating high school students? 2-3 years small salary vocational training straight out of HS at 1 of 400k participating companies in 1 of 400 role types. I want to know why implementing this isn't a national debate in US, it seems like such an obviously good idea.

I'd bet a large part of the reason is cultural. For just about any American high school student who's been exposed to the mainstream culture their entire lives (including myself at the time), the idea of missing out on the "college experience" (i.e. mostly partying) that just about every conventionally successful person they've ever met will have gone through and instead going to "small salary vocational training" wo…

Try to put yourself in the shoes of the 40% of graduating high schoolers in the US who don't go to college. It would seem nice to have an option to graduate and start a career.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#540

Post by torstenvl »

stevens32 wrote: post #535
torstenvl wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal college education is a huge disadvantage to lower-income people of all races and ethnicities, especially those in rural areas.

Wait.. what? Mind explaining this?

What's to explain? Universal college education cannot be done without tax increases, and increasing taxes on the rural working class to pay for a program that doesn't benefit them is a huge disadvantage to them.

If I'm a 21yo man in North Dakota working the oil fields to support my young family, how would you expect me to react to the idea of increasing my taxes so that white collar kids don't have to pay as much?

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