For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business • Hacker News Board

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#431

Post by taurath » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:13 AM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #307

twybriny wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things that confuses me quite a bit is the focus on laws that expired or have been abrogated 50-60-70-150 years ago and make it as if everything wrong with contemporary American society is caused directly by such laws and nothing else. * GI Bill: adopted in 1944, expired in 1956. * Social Security: adopted in 1935, unclear what the impacts were at the time. Unclear what the impacts are today. * Redlining:…

>As an immigrant that landed in US post 2000 with $1000 to my name and a tenuous F1 situation, all this sounds like ancient history. Well, it's not. In living memory: >The wealth of black Americans was halved by the 2008 financial crisis, in part because of predatory lending practices which specifically targeted them by race and misrepresented their creditworthiness https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/201…

There seems to be a concerted effort on HN to downvote any non right-wing viewpoints, especially quality posts like this one.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#432

Post by runako » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:13 AM UTC

newen wrote: post #412

scruple wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Estimated at $8 billion dollars a year [0]. I found this book review [1] to be spot-on with my reading of the DiAngelo book, and this is also where I learned of the above estimate from the Washington Post. > As a business journalist, however, I’ve chronicled the slow progress people of color have made in the corporate world, even as companies spend, by one measure, more than $8 billion a year on diversity initiatives…

For comparison, US film industry revenue is around $11 billion a year.

Nitpick: the $11B is US domestic ticket sales only. The US film industry is much bigger than US domestic ticket sales, however. (International ticket sales, cable licensing, etc.)

This is more or less obvious given that the top 10 grossing movies in 2019 took in ~ $13B in global ticket sales and In 2017 US film industry revenues were ~$43B according to

https://deadline.com/2018/07/film-industry-revenue-2017-ibis...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#433

Post by johnisgood » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:15 AM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #50

tomp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's stereotyping, not racism. People make inferences. Like, if there's two folks, one dressed in a suit, the other in baggy clothes with thick glasses, most people (including VCs) would default to the former as the MBA CEO, and the latter as geek CTO Even though it might be the exact opposite! If you make a wrong inference, just accept the correction and move on, no hurt feelings. Similar for old vs. young.

Some inferences are perfectly fine. If someone shows up in your office wearing the outfit of a cleaning company, you're fine in assuming they're a cleaning person. In some circumstances, it's not harmful to assume the person wearing a suit is the CEO, though you might not always be right. The person in the suit might also be head of sales, while baggy clothes is CEO. Generally, it's better not to assume at all unless…

> But inferring that someone isn't the CEO because they're black? I'm sorry, but that's racism pure and simple.

If I were to meet/know/whatever 100 CEOs and 99% of them were not black and for example wore an expensive suit in a specific setting/environment, then is it racist to assume (based on my past experiences) that a particular black person wearing an expensive suit in this particular setting/environment is not the CEO? I honestly fail to see how making assumptions based on personal experiences and whatnot is racist. This is not equivalent to claiming that someone who is black cannot be the CEO, there is the possibility, most definitely. Denying this possibility based on race or skin color is what I would rather have a problem with.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#434

Post by titzer » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:16 AM UTC

sfj wrote: post #336

darth_avocado wrote: post #187

For everyone arguing "honest mistake" or "just chance", think about the person at the receiving end. For the person making that mistake, it could be their first, but for the person at the receiving end it could be the hundredth, and that too, not without consequences. The first 3-4 times I got "randomly selected" for additional screening at the airport, I was like whatever. But years later after my probably 100th "ra…

Did you ever think it might be the way you dress or your demeanor? Obviously, it could be racial also, but how could you know that?

You are being downvoted because this is a soft form of victim blaming [1]. As tone and context are difficult to transmit in such a short reply, it might be a good idea to phrase things in a more empathetic way in the future.

And for the record, no, no this isn't because of how they dress.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#435

Post by catalogia » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:17 AM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #389

phaus wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Black Americans have watched a completely different and profoundly more compassionate response to the white people affected by the opioid epidemic than they experienced in the crack/cocaine epidemic https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/crack-h... . https://thewitnessbcc.com/crack-epidemic-opioid-crisis-race-... . Great post and you brought up a few things I hadn't considered. Just curious about this…

> America in general has gradually shifted towards a view that drug addicts are sick people that need help. Just a coincidence that this shift happened as more white people started suffering from such addictions?

It probably has more to do with the internet facilitating the dissemination of information that ran counter to the governments' anti-drug propaganda.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#436

Post by throwaway_day » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

"Everyone in the US was raised in an environment that inculcated certain racial ideas, subconsciously or not."

This is bolder than I think you think it is. It's maybe evasive, too -- which ideas, exactly?

"I'm sorry, please excuse me for the instance of racism I just perpetrated against you, I promise it won't happen again."

There's no doubt the person in question should apologize, but what "racism" has been "perpetrated"? (A) there are and have been few black CEOs in America. (B) the guy/girl in your example does not expect a black CEO as a result. (C) Guy/girl commits extremely awkward faux pas.

Where is the racism? Where is the "inculcated idea" about race, besides an expectation based on ... there being literally very few black CEOs? I'll even grant you that (A) might be the case in part because of historical racist behavior in the US. Surely it is! It still doesn't make the guy necessarily racist. He doesn't tell us that he believes that human characteristics are determined by skin color, for example, nor does he tell the room e.g. that by golly he didn't know blacks could handle being a CEO, or that they were even allowed to do so, or some such actually racist BS.

I think the definitions of a lot of things have expanded since the childhoods of people of a certain age, and they're grappling with those changes. I certainly am. Racism doesn't seem to mean what I've long understood it to mean. Racism exists, and it ought to be fought, but I'm not sure how productive the current mood is going to be for that. I kinda hope I'm wrong, but I'd also be worried to be wrong, if people like Do Angelio are a sign of what's to come.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#437

Post by taurath » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:22 AM UTC

Press2forEN wrote: post #199

lukev wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wait to do anything about systemic racism until it's fully quantified, it will be a long time until we can make any progress. Meanwhile, a central point of the book is one that should be self evident. Talking about racism makes white people[1] uncomfortable. I know this to be true from experience. And we can't make progress as a society until we own that discomfort and are willing to have frank conversations a…

> Talking about racism makes white people uncomfortable. When the basic premise of the argument is that white Americans are born irredeemably flawed[1], you're unlikely to win many white supporters other than the most guilt-ridden. I suppose the tactic is to impart as much guilt as possible. But that doesn't make the argument a good one. [1] https://twitter.com/DisrnNews/status/1266857347567190016

I think just about all white people would do well to look around the neighborhood that they grew up in and think about the politics of how it got to be that way. I went to a high school of 1400, and in 4 years there were all of 3 black kids. Turns out this is because no black family was allowed by any bank to get a loan for a mortgage in the area until 1974. White blindness to their privilege is a huge impediment to change - people have literally no idea how different people are treated when there's a different skin color.

The tactic is to get people to actually listen so that they might agree its an actual problem and then actually do something about it.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#438

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:24 AM UTC

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #248

greenhatglack wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of money to be made in "anti-racism" and "gender-science", especially in tax-heavy countries. No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income. I'll be contrarian and recommend Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" instead.

I'm skeptical of any American "Libertarian" especially when it comes to race. Sowell is a class-reductionist, which would make him a terrible pick for this topic.

[deleted]

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#439

Post by phaus » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #429

phaus wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Black Americans have watched a completely different and profoundly more compassionate response to the white people affected by the opioid epidemic than they experienced in the crack/cocaine epidemic https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/crack-h... . https://thewitnessbcc.com/crack-epidemic-opioid-crisis-race-... . Great post and you brought up a few things I hadn't considered. Just curious about this…

> How much of an impact do you think systemic racism had on the response to the opioid epidemic and how much can just be attributed to the fact that we have gotten smarter about drug addiction in general? Most of society now empathizes with drug addiction because its hit white society a lot and the race of users can't be used as a political scapegoat. As long as you're white, the richer you are, the less likely you a…

>We haven't gotten smarter about drug addiction in general, which is why we have the largest prison population in the world.

Legalization and decriminalization of Marijuana is still a relatively recent phenomenon. It seems to me like it will eventually get legalized by the federal government. If that happens, wouldn't we expect this to get better? The right thing to do would be to release everyone that was in jailed on marijuana related charges as long as they weren't also convicted of something more serious (like violence). Maybe I'm being too optimistic.

I think a lot of Americans realize how insane it is that we jail more people than any other country. While progress is always slow, it seems like we're hearing more politicians talk about doing something about it.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#440

Post by bryanrasmussen » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

scruple wrote: post #381

solveit wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone get me an actual number so I know what to think?

Estimated at $8 billion dollars a year [0]. I found this book review [1] to be spot-on with my reading of the DiAngelo book, and this is also where I learned of the above estimate from the Washington Post. > As a business journalist, however, I’ve chronicled the slow progress people of color have made in the corporate world, even as companies spend, by one measure, more than $8 billion a year on diversity initiatives…

i don't think we're at the diversity training incorporated stage yet, so while there may be a lot of money to be made and more to come currently I assume what is being made is a lot of very comfortable livings.

That said while I haven't read the DiAngelo book the scenario I imagine for situations like this is generally not someone waking up and saying I will write something to get some money out of these people but rather I will write something about this situation, later getting offers of more and more money and then behaviorism takes control of the journey.

It is difficult to get someone to change what they're doing once they start getting paid for doing it.

This is of course all separate from whether I might agree with the book if I read it. I can still agree 100% with someone and think that their perspective is constrained by how they have begun to profit from it.