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Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

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Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#521
post #99
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it, aren't most colleges non-profits? Why do they seek such high tuition fees if they're not profiting? Or are they, somehow?

Not to mention Harvard has a $40 billion endowment on top of that. At the end of the day, it's a way to not pay taxes. Stakeholders are still getting paid in different ways: high salaries and job security, "administrator" jobs that shouldn't exist. In other words, it's socialism.

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Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Asian American myself, I don't understand this notion of discrimination against Asian Americans by Ivy League schools. Per Harvards Class of 2023 Admissions data [1], Asian Americans makeup 25.3% of the admitted class. They're the largest minority group admitted. [1] https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

They make up 25.3% of the admitted class but would probably make up 75-80% of the admitted class in a system truly based on merit. 4 out of 5 strong applicants are rejected simply because they're Asian American.

Maybe, but students also want a diverse student body if they're going to an institution like Harvard. I doubt that the top X% of students who get into Harvard want to be surrounded by people just like them. They want diversity and different perspectives from people who are creative intelligent. That's the appeal of institutions like Harvard.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Merit is not a perfectly objective concept. Someone has to come up with criteria based on whatever goals and values they think are important.

> Merit is not a perfectly objective concept Perhaps, but sure as hell is better than race to qualify a candidate.

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Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Merit is not a perfectly objective concept. Someone has to come up with criteria based on whatever goals and values they think are important.

> Someone has to come up with criteria based on whatever goals and values they think are important. The most obvious criteria is: most likely to graduate. Some others that aren't bad: * Highest expected value of future donations * Highest expected value of impact (publication) * Highest expected value of future salary * Highest expected value of holding public office (the weighting here might be contentious) As long…

Two of Harvard's most famous students: Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg didn't graduate, but the Harvard name still got boosted by the fact that they attended.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#525

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> You accuse my argument ala the "Satya-Sundar fallacy" as specious because I use a few cherry picked examples to demonstrate demonstrate a general fact that isn't true? Accuse is a strong word, but basically yes. Maybe it's a visceral reaction to something I have hear one too many times, that Asians don't face discrimination in tech because "Look at Satya and Sundar" (not exactly what you said). But the point is tha…

> Here, we can be shot by random guys in bars because they think we're Iranian Cherry picking a single occurrence where someone shot someone for racist reasons is not how science works plus this has nothing to do with the discussion. Microsoft, IBM, Google, Adobe, Nokia, Harman, MasterCard and PepsiCo etc all have Indian (minority) CEOs. Apple has a gay CEO. Claiming there is some bias against minorities is absurd. h…

> Claiming there is some bias against minorities is absurd.

Have a good evening, I guess :)

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#526
post #163

This recent trend of eliminating the SAT/ACT reads to me like: “Let’s eliminate these measures that allow high performing students to objectively differentiate themselves, in favor of a more opaque admissions process where we can implement discriminatory policies without scrutiny.”

>allow high performing students to objectively differentiate themselves Except the argument by people is it's NOT objective. I think the argument goes something like this: rich kid gets full time tutor privately or through school and is able to do significantly better on the SAT/ACT because they have specifically prepared for it. It doesn't mean they are smarter, or even a better student. It means they have been prep…

This is a myth. Almost nobody, even among "rich kids", gets a full time tutor for the SAT/ACT. Most just use the same cheap tools everyone else does - a Barron's test prep book.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>) I don't see how they can bring them back after this What difficulty is there? As they've announced it's removed due to events this year, I honestly can't guess. On B, I said it skews more towards the rich this year. Most years everyone at least has their school day. If it is not required, it just becomes extracurricular. If it's not considered it's useless.

I think it isn't really comparable to an extracurricular, especially not if similar schools continue to require it. It would basically be an extracurricular that you know everyone has but only some people are choosing to report it. That just seems like something that could subconsciously affect judgement even if admissions tries to be agnostic.

The reason many colleges are changing it to "not required" is because so many students are unable to take the test this year.

Something that is not required but still considered is beyond the curriculum, or extracurricular. Many colleges have allowed you to submit both the SAT and ACT, admissions uses all the data available and the student should present themselves as best they truthfully can.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about those? Definitely not the new American left.

Is your claim that the "American Left" has decided to sacrifice the poor whites to help other races? If it is, it's not really an accurate claim. It's poor Asians who've taken the largest brunt of affirmative action, while Whites have remained relatively neutral in their standing.

Your comment is a non-sequitur, and that non-sequitur is emblematic of exactly the problem everyone else in this thread is discussing.

How well "Whites" as a group are doing says nothing about "poor whites" and how they're doing. It's a fallacy of division, and anyway you shouldn't pre-judge things about people based on race... it's literally racial prejudice.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about those? Definitely not the new American left.

The "new American left" wants universal health care, college education, housing, and a clean environment. All of those issues affect lower-income whites just as much as any other racial group.

Universal college education is a huge disadvantage to lower-income people of all races and ethnicities, especially those in rural areas.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#530
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you encountered racism. That sucks and hope you work with better people in the future. As someone who lives in the US but was raised in Australia, I have to say that I've encountered a lot more ignorance in the US but a lot less racism. I think it's getter better but probably not quickly enough. > So why should Asians be denied the opportunity to prove that that heuristic is imperfect? HAHA only Asians and rich…

> I went to Berkeley for grad school. Now I am a CTO at a company looking at resumes. I would hire a Berkeley grad over an ivy grad ANY day because I know how competitive and difficult the STEM programs at Berkeley are. How many Berkley grads have you hired and have you tracked their actual job performance?

None. I've not hired many ivy grads either. Competition for devs is still hot and i've only been able to hire from community colleges.
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