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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

bloomberg.com

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#311

Post by carapace »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #238
callmeal wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What white person has achieved this goal? I know at least one person who has. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/oct/27/black-like-me-... I know it's not possible for everyone to do what John Howard Griffin did, but reading that book and living that experience vicariously can be a start.

I don't think that's the best example. How does one separate: "They're treating me poorly because I'm a black person" and "They're treating me poorly because I'm a white guy trying to be a black person"

I read this book. He fooled people both black and white.

FWIW, I think reading it would help some people understand.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#312

Post by charlesu »

fermienrico wrote: post #272
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I was with you until > Everyone in the US was raised in an environment that inculcated certain racial ideas, subconsciously or not I’ve always noticed the opposite. Americans are a lot more forgiving of race than any other country. Even places like Sweden has serious problems with racism whereas US has lead so many positive changes and civil wars about racism. Growing up in US white suburbs, we were taught by parents…

The Civil War was not about racism, it was about the South demanding that new states be slave states, which threatened the balance of power between the North and South. Lincoln literally only freed the slaves because he believed if would help preserve the Union. In his own words:

If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union...

Lincoln freed the slaves because it was expedient to do so. But it was a great act and certainly the right thing to do.

You were taught to be cognizant of racism because our country was a racial caste system for hundreds of years. Moreover, Jim Crow was less than a lifetime ago, racial redlining was legal as recently as the 1970's, and the crack-cocaine sentencing disparity existed as recently as 2010. Race is at the center of America because America put it at its center, time and time again.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#313

Post by DenisM »

ibudiallo wrote: post #140

I usually choose to believe in "the honest mistake". It happens, two people walk in, one of them is the CEO, you assume it is the one on the right. And then when you realize it is a mistake, you apologize. We are only human. But when it happens over and over and over, you can't help but feel frustrated. You realize that people natural instinct is to think you are the subordinate. One second your are on stage at Techc…

Bummer, man. Did you ever find any way to control the outcome, even if partially?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#314

Post by NonEUCitizen »

wolco wrote: post #267
refurb wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what my concern with the focus on race is. You may commit an act that appears racist, when in fact it wasn't at all. An example: - I run into a white friend and call him Dave (another white guy I know), when his name is Mark. It happens, I apologize as I'm terrible with names. - I run into a black friend and call him Dave (another black guy I know), when his name is Mark. It happens, I apologize as I'm terrib…

The person calling you racist is racist. They are making a judgement based on Mark's race. They need to be educated.

Nobody called the paranoid amnesiac racist. He made up someone accusing him of racism, and you're now accusing the imaginary accuser of racism. (The paranoid amnesiac is also a made-up figure)

Everyone just hang out more with people "different" from you and recognize we're all part of the human race.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#315

Post by root_axis »

pessimizer wrote: post #161
DevX101 wrote: post #148

Some of the most successful blacks in tech had to 'hide' their blackness to achieve success. Robert Smith, the wealthiest black man in America, specifically didn't put up a photo on his investment firm's site to avoid any possibility of bias (now that he's a multi-billionaire who's "made it", this is no longer a concern). Calendly, who's CEO is black, and is one of the top performing black led tech startups curiously…

> You're assumed to be mediocre (or worse) until you can prove yourself exceptional. And to make this personal, feeling like you have to be the best in every group in order to be respected enough that you can't be ignored leads to overwork and burnout.

Very true. There is less tolerance for middling black people in general, I jokingly refer to it as the Obama effect. Mediocrity in black people is often viewed as a function of their race rather than as the quality of an individual with flaws. If you aren't living up to the Obama standard you're sometimes thought to be a net negative compared to what might have been if there was a white person in your place. Mediocre white people are just assumed to be the best available option for the organization at the time. I've heard coworkers literally refer to other black people as "the price of diversity" (and just to be clear, their point was that the price was "worth it" in the name of diveristy). It sucks.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#316

Post by DenisM »

darth_avocado wrote: post #187

For everyone arguing "honest mistake" or "just chance", think about the person at the receiving end. For the person making that mistake, it could be their first, but for the person at the receiving end it could be the hundredth, and that too, not without consequences. The first 3-4 times I got "randomly selected" for additional screening at the airport, I was like whatever. But years later after my probably 100th "ra…

Have you tried applying for Global Entry? That may end your torment. Just a thought.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#317

Post by ipnon »

m0zg wrote: post #200
tashi wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny, I'm black too and I used to have white people misread my facial expression a lot. I ended up training myself to use a different, more "neutral-looking" resting face in public.

I'm white and people think I'm angry and unapproachable. It is uncommon in my country of origin to smile for no reason, and if one doesn't do it here in the US, people mistake what I consider my "neutral" face as hostility. I'm still working on it. Worse yet, it's also not common in the Russian culture to maintain constant eye contact with strangers, not doing which in the US means that one is trying to mislead and t…

As an American, I often find myself in trouble for smiling pointlessly.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#318

Post by charlesu »

JPKab wrote: post #56
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I've read "White Fragility". While I completely agree that the stories in this article are hugely problematic and represent issues that need to be solved, I think books like "White Fragility" are not helpful in solving them. This is due to a focus on group identity, and describing "White" as if it's a monolithic group of people, all with the same culture, emotions, and reactions. Another interesting aspect I identifi…

> Another interesting aspect I identified while reading the book was it's description of the emotions that one can expect to see when confronting white people about race issues: the description could have been used to describe any human being you will ever meet when you accuse/blame them for something that they did not personally do.

I've heard this before and don't understand it.

Why should talking about racial issues make people feel like they're being accused of something? I am a man. I have not be catcalled or threatened for rejecting someone's advances. I can't recall any prominent examples of witnessing a woman being threatened for rejecting a man's advances. But when a woman tells me that it happens to her, I don't feel guilty. So I don't understand how someone telling you about their experience leads to feeling like being accused or blamed for something you did not do.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#319

Post by charlesu »

DenisM wrote: post #316
darth_avocado wrote: post #187

For everyone arguing "honest mistake" or "just chance", think about the person at the receiving end. For the person making that mistake, it could be their first, but for the person at the receiving end it could be the hundredth, and that too, not without consequences. The first 3-4 times I got "randomly selected" for additional screening at the airport, I was like whatever. But years later after my probably 100th "ra…

Have you tried applying for Global Entry? That may end your torment. Just a thought.

So he should pay to be treated with dignity at the airport?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#320

Post by ibudiallo »

tootie wrote: post #278
ibudiallo wrote: post #140

I usually choose to believe in "the honest mistake". It happens, two people walk in, one of them is the CEO, you assume it is the one on the right. And then when you realize it is a mistake, you apologize. We are only human. But when it happens over and over and over, you can't help but feel frustrated. You realize that people natural instinct is to think you are the subordinate. One second your are on stage at Techc…

People really should know better. It's not that hard to just be polite and avoid assumption. But I think you're doing the right thing by giving the benefit of the doubt. Whatever the reason for their behavior, a helpful and non-judgmental correction is more likely to get them to reevaluate their prejudices and maybe do better next time. As much right as you may have to be indignant it would only make them defensive.

There is a passage in Catch-22 where Colonel Cathcart accidentally makes a sexual reference when speaking with the chaplain.

At first he is embarrassed. But the more he thinks about it, the more he gets pissed at the chaplain for being present when he embarrassed himself. And when he remembers that the chaplain is only his subordinate, he gets furious. The chaplain suffers the colonel's wrath because...

For me, working in tech feels like being the chaplain.

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