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Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

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Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#311

Post by wait_a_minute »

asdf9240 wrote: post #309
wait_a_minute wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about those? Definitely not the new American left.

There is a very great portion of the American left that cares about economic status. I do believe that admissions should factor in socioeconomic status rather than just race, gender, etc., but believing this does not require me to generalize a very wide reaching political stance.

It isn't generalizing a political stance, but summarizing the dominant narrative given to us by the media and what I call the new American left.

If the narrative was mostly about economic status, we would hear more about that and about universal programs. Rather than disparities and identity politics.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#312

Post by stormtroper1721 »

geomark wrote: post #128
contemporary343 wrote: post #28

I'm a Canadian who went to an ivy for undergrad, and have always found the American attachment to the SAT a bit puzzling. I'm also puzzled at the widespread view that by removing the SAT some grave injustice or lowering in standards is inevitable. Canadian universities manage to admit students mostly just based on high school grades just fine. (Yes, there are provincial final exams but those scores often are not avai…

So Canadian universties don't admit homeschoolers since there are no high school grades?

Nope most do, I’m a homeschooled student and I got accepted into both UofT’s engsci and Uwaterloo software eng without a high school diploma.

they consider you on a case by case basis and recommend/require that you take 5-6 grade 12 courses that you can take at a school or through distance learning. Other standardized tests like the Sat and ap exams are also recommended

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#313

Post by syshum »

webmaven wrote: post #283
wait_a_minute wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about those? Definitely not the new American left.

Classism may not be quite as "trendy" as racism or sexism right this minute, but I think you'll still find plenty of interest in the topic (and it's intersections with the others) on the left.

>>I think you'll still find plenty of interest in the topic (and it's intersections with the others) on the left.

Please provide examples because I am not aware of any.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#314

Post by germinalphrase »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #278
lallysingh wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's definitely a zero-sum game.

The new American left does treat it as a zero sum game. That is why they focus on disparities instead of universal programs that would eliminate the largest absolute amounts of poverty and suffering.

What falls in the bucket of “universal programs”?

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#315

Post by stormtroper1721 »

contemporary343 wrote: post #34
laser wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most competitive universities in Canada, like McGill and UBC have 46% and 52% acceptance rates. Canada has more of a culture of going to college in the province you grew up. To compare that to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, etc. that have sub-10% admittance rates and have to review tens of thousands of applications is failing to realize the scope of the problem these schools face in selecting students.

I'm very familiar with the scope of the admissions challenge and it's not really an issue of number of applicants. Most universities already have an understanding of different high schools (though often biased to wealthier communities). As for Canada, specific programs at Canadian schools can be quite selective - for example EngSci at the University of Toronto has a ~10% admission rate. Other programs are more like s…

Can confirm, some programs and unis are very selective with very low acceptance rates but the average student doesn’t usually have too much trouble getting into a relatively good program without having to do standardized tests

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#316

Post by ransom1538 »

akyu wrote: post #115

I have a hard time understanding the logic here. GPAs are essentially useless, so what else do we have to go off of? "Hollistic admissions" processes seem to be even more skewed towards rich kids, as they have far greater opportunities outside of the class room to pad their resumes in exactly the way that colleges look for. This seems entirely backwards to me. If there is a systemic bias in test scores, it is still b…

You give every new born a random number. If their number % 10 == 3 they go to college. The end. Will that work?

My theory is that those kids don't do better than other kids.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#317

Post by creatornator »

crimsonalucard5 wrote: post #237
code4tee wrote: post #18

The SAT has always generally been a test showing how well you prepared for the SAT. For top schools all viable candidates had very good scores so it wasn’t much use. It was just one of those things everyone did because everyone did it. With more opting out that momentum goes away and increasingly now people are asking “so why did we use this test again?” Likely won’t be long until the SAT just disappears entirely and…

>The SAT has always generally been a test showing how well you prepared for the SAT. For top schools all viable candidates had very good scores so it wasn’t much use. There are many people who have high GPA's but are not intelligent enough to do well on the SATs. Removing this bar will allow those people through. Not necessarily a bad thing but a thing nonetheless.

The point is that the SATs don't measure intelligence. "not intelligent enough to do well on the SATs" is harsh. And if anything I think it would go the other way--it's common to get a subpar grade on the SAT even if you are smart and a high achiever.

And regarding removing the bar allowing more people through, that's not true either--it's not like colleges all of a sudden have more seats available. They'll still only admit the same number of students, and they will still select for the best students.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#318

Post by 0x00000000 »

grumple wrote: post #294
cambalache wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dont understand until your kids get rejected despite having straight A, high SAT scores and strong background, just because many other people whose ancestors come from a similar region on earth were as highly qualified too. So your kid is out not because of her fault but because of her race. I suppose many people are OK because deep down they think they will be in the accepted portion but still.

And that person will still get into a great school. It just doesn’t have to be Harvard.

Anecdote: I had straight As in high school, took every AP class they offered, 98th percentile SAT and got rejected from every single college I applied to except for one state school which I’m pretty sure they were obligated to accept me to for being a resident

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#319

Post by tharne »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #278
lallysingh wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's definitely a zero-sum game.

The new American left does treat it as a zero sum game. That is why they focus on disparities instead of universal programs that would eliminate the largest absolute amounts of poverty and suffering.

Zero sum thinking is probably the most central tenet of the broader philosophy of the American left.

That's why there's so much talk of "disparity" or "inequality" vs. actual improvements to standards of living and quality of life. Almost all economic growth creates inequality for the simple reason that the more wealth there is, the more potential you have for skew.

In China, for instance, there was much less income inequality back in the 60's but I don't think too many folks want to go back to those days.

Similarly, I don't really care how much a CEO makes, I care about my own quality of life. To hear the new American left tell it though, we'd be better off all being equally poor instead of generally wealthier with a big differences between individual incomes.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#320

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

seibelj wrote: post #212
travisoneill1 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else are you going to keep the Asians out?

You are probably being facetious, but my wife is Vietnamese and her parents were boat people who fled the communists, didn't speak any English and had no money, then her dad got a job washing dishes, learned English at night, got into college, then got into medical school, started a chain of clinics, and retired a millionaire. You would not believe how much they despise current "progressive" politics and speaking wit…

See what happens when East Asians from a poor background try to take advantage of affirmative action programs.
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