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Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

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Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#291

Post by thaumasiotes »

Spivak wrote: post #215
ylem wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb question, but are GPAs useless? I mean a plot of say high school GPA vs say college graduation rate or college GPA would be rather informative.

High Schools are on the student’s side when it comes to college admissions. So when you’re on the honors track of your HS you almost literally can’t fail because your HS is trying to get you into better schools. Your HS is playing the game with you. The secret of being an honors kid isn’t aptitude but being told that you’re smart and your parents/peers expecting it of you.

> The secret of being an honors kid isn’t aptitude but being told that you’re smart and your parents/peers expecting it of you.

How much teaching experience do you have? I'm including any time you tried to convey a skill to any other person.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#292

Post by Press2forEN »

wait_a_minute wrote: post #269
iagovar wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds bad if you're a white non-rich kid.

Who cares about those? Definitely not the new American left.

As unfortunate as it may be, they still benefit from systemic racism and must be held just as accountable as their wealthy counterparts.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#293

Post by tombert »

Very mixed feelings on this.

I got terrible grades throughout high school (despite taking AP classes), and the only reason I was able to attend college was because I had very high ACT scores (perfect in English, and 2 points away from perfect in Math).

The way I see it there are two kind of perspectives you can take on this: A) I was a lazy kid who skated by and short-circuited my way through college or B) the school system failed me and I shouldn't be punished by not being able to attend college.

Honestly, I tend to gravitate toward option A, but it does make me wonder how much weight we should really assign to GPAs.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#294

Post by grumple »

cambalache wrote: post #82
shreygineer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Asian American myself, I don't understand this notion of discrimination against Asian Americans by Ivy League schools. Per Harvards Class of 2023 Admissions data [1], Asian Americans makeup 25.3% of the admitted class. They're the largest minority group admitted. [1] https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

You dont understand until your kids get rejected despite having straight A, high SAT scores and strong background, just because many other people whose ancestors come from a similar region on earth were as highly qualified too. So your kid is out not because of her fault but because of her race. I suppose many people are OK because deep down they think they will be in the accepted portion but still.

And that person will still get into a great school. It just doesn’t have to be Harvard.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#295

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

tinyhouse wrote: post #197

Harvard can be corrupt. There's a very average girl in my town who wouldn't get admitted to grad school at Harvard if her dad wasn't a law professor at Harvard. Regarding asians. It's not about race. Diversity in academia is important for many reasons. It's not about being asian, it's about living in a rich family at a top school district, regardless of your race. A poor kid from a bad neighborhood cannot compete wit…

I very briefly considered applying to MIT. I looked at application materials, and one of the questions was something to the effect of "What have you made/built that had impact on the world?" Knowing that I don't come from high society (both parents without college degrees), I knew I wouldn't have an interesting answer to this question relative to wealthy peers, and immediately bailed out on the process.

I know being defeatist isn't a winning strategy, but I guarantee you people won't even apply because they think their chances are so remote. And truthfully, I didn't need to go to MIT to have a successful career. I went to a less competitive institution that still offered a rigorous education. Career-wise, it has worked out.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#296

Post by retortio »

kory wrote: post #268
retortio wrote: post #261

Ah, those pesky standardized tests. Sure they're the hardest part of admissions to game and are a major part of establishing an even intellectual playing field for applicants, but it just looks so bad when we discard a much higher proportion of qualified Asian applicants than qualified applicants from other groups! We were even sued over this issue and the suit is going to appeal! And we're trying so hard to increase…

The problem is that standardized tests worsen the gap between the privileged and not. Test performance correlates strongly with how much prep you receive. Wealthy, white & asian students have the advantage there. Not to mention that I am not convinced these tests strongly correlate with one’s ability to successfully complete an undergrad degree.

What's harder: gaining admission to a prestigious private high school that costs $50,000 a year or getting a few cheap SAT test books, watching some free YouTube videos and practicing for a few weeks?

The point is that the SAT can be practiced for (to a small extent), but the resources necessary to improve one's score are cheap and widely available. It's one of the most equitable aspects of college admissions we have.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#297

Post by pnw_hazor »

seibelj wrote: post #212
travisoneill1 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else are you going to keep the Asians out?

You are probably being facetious, but my wife is Vietnamese and her parents were boat people who fled the communists, didn't speak any English and had no money, then her dad got a job washing dishes, learned English at night, got into college, then got into medical school, started a chain of clinics, and retired a millionaire. You would not believe how much they despise current "progressive" politics and speaking wit…

The Vietnamese side of my family are refugees too, two MDs, 2 engineers, and one CS professor. Not bad for growing up in public housing and on food stamps.

They see Communism rising in America and support Trump.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#299

Post by devalgo »

akyu wrote: post #115

I have a hard time understanding the logic here. GPAs are essentially useless, so what else do we have to go off of? "Hollistic admissions" processes seem to be even more skewed towards rich kids, as they have far greater opportunities outside of the class room to pad their resumes in exactly the way that colleges look for. This seems entirely backwards to me. If there is a systemic bias in test scores, it is still b…

I get the sentiment but the reality is rich kids can also have massive advantages in test taking. As someone who has taught SAT/ACT prep courses I can tell you I have seen many kids improve their scores by in some cases hundreds of points after taking multi-thousand dollar prep courses. And I believe GPA is actually the only thing that reliably predicts college performance.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#300

Post by dominotw »

akyu wrote: post #115

I have a hard time understanding the logic here. GPAs are essentially useless, so what else do we have to go off of? "Hollistic admissions" processes seem to be even more skewed towards rich kids, as they have far greater opportunities outside of the class room to pad their resumes in exactly the way that colleges look for. This seems entirely backwards to me. If there is a systemic bias in test scores, it is still b…

my cousin "volunteered" at her dad's hospital to get into harvard( which she did). Now she is doctor. I know for a fact that she had zero passion to be doctor, hated being in the medical school and hates her work.

Hard not be cynical and hate the institutions when witness stuff like this.

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