Live data from Hacker News

The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

skorks.com

11–20 of 32 posts

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#11
I think Atwood's essay is relevant again - "If it's a core business function -- do it yourself, no matter what" http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/10/programming-is-hard...

You can learn any number of things just in time, but have a core set of competencies which you invest in, upfront.

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#12
It has become a mantra for our whole industry which hasn't changed said industry for the better.

What is our primary responsibility, to make our whole industry better or to make our customers better? Sometimes, there are tradeoffs.

Why bother, it will be replaced, superseded, marginalised and out of fashion before you're half way done.

Why bother when you will never use it? There's enough to do already without learning every nuance of every tech out there. Lots of software running the world is using only 10% of the tools of the given technology.

...developers differentiating themselves based on soft skills rather than developer skills – seems a bit twisted.

Developers differentiate themselves on what needs to be differentiated. Sometimes that's deep tech. Sometimes it's shallow tech and deep domain knowledge. Sometimes it's good people skills. The only thing "twisted" is thinking that any one is better than the others.

You seem like an expert without ever being an expert...

Only to your customers, but not to other experts. One of the best pieces of advice I ever learned was, "All you have to do is stay one step ahead of your customers. No one else really matters."

You can't learn something if you don't know it exists.

Absolutely! The question then becomes, "How do I find out what exists?" There are several ways. Reading a book is one. Getting your ass kicked by a competitor is another. Which do you think gets more attention?

...there is a billion lines of code out there right now which can be replaced with a million lines of faster, cleaner, better code simply because whoever wrote it didn't know what they didn't know.

No question. Who's going to pay for that?

...skimming subjects doesn't allow you to retain anything, our brain doesn't work that way.

Our brain learns best by doing. If HaveProblem + SkimmingSubjects leads to Doing, then SkimmingSubjects serves it purpose. We can't possiblity learn everything. The trick is knowing what to learn based upon the problem at hand and the stuff we pick up along the way. Skimming is an invaluable tool to help make these choices.

OP brings up lots of great points. If the existing code base is any indication, our industry really needs to advance. Too many developers are building too much stuff with the same hammer and screwdriver from years ago.

Nothing scares me more, however, than the vision of developers becoming academics, learning the technology du jour and still not being able to build what's needed by the great masses. We've been down that path before and it takes a long time before anything is pretty. There has to be a middle ground.

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#13
post #12

It has become a mantra for our whole industry which hasn't changed said industry for the better. What is our primary responsibility, to make our whole industry better or to make our customers better? Sometimes, there are tradeoffs. Why bother, it will be replaced, superseded, marginalised and out of fashion before you're half way done. Why bother when you will never use it? There's enough to do already without learni…

There's nothing wrong with focusing completely on your customers - after a couple of years you're likely to find yourself a good businessman and a good-enough coder. There is something wrong with just coasting as a programmer, though: after a couple of years, you'll still just be a good-enough coder.

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#14

But, if that was the way, every old person would be an expert in a whole bunch of stuff and that is emphatically not the case. Emphatically, huh? I guess it's not so obvious to me. Talk to an intelligent, clearheaded old person, and you may discover that they are experts in a thing or two.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of older (65+) people, despite their experience, are simply unable to keep up with technology. On that scale age matters, and 30yo can't be compared to 65yo. We all will be there.

That's neither good nor bad. That's just the way it is.

However, I know people that successfully started their startup company in their 50's.

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#15
I don't understand this article. I learn as much as I have time to learn while still getting all my work done. I'm constantly trying new things and developing my expertise on a number of topics that I don't currently consider myself an expert in. It seems like other people are doing this too so what's the issue?

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#16
post #14

But, if that was the way, every old person would be an expert in a whole bunch of stuff and that is emphatically not the case. Emphatically, huh? I guess it's not so obvious to me. Talk to an intelligent, clearheaded old person, and you may discover that they are experts in a thing or two.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of older (65+) people, despite their experience, are simply unable to keep up with technology. On that scale age matters, and 30yo can't be compared to 65yo. We all will be there. That's neither good nor bad. That's just the way it is. However, I know people that successfully started their startup company in their 50's.

Whether or not older people, as a rule, can perform as well as a 30yo isn't really my point -- I suppose some can, and most cannot. My point was that I don't agree that the vast majority of people who make it to old age have never become expert at anything. Older folk mostly want to talk about their youth and their grandkids, but that doesn't mean they really don't know anything other than that. They're just no longer interested (or think you aren't interested) in things they are or were experts in. Those subjects may well now be obsolete, of course; I'm not denying that.

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#17
post #14

But, if that was the way, every old person would be an expert in a whole bunch of stuff and that is emphatically not the case. Emphatically, huh? I guess it's not so obvious to me. Talk to an intelligent, clearheaded old person, and you may discover that they are experts in a thing or two.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of older (65+) people, despite their experience, are simply unable to keep up with technology. On that scale age matters, and 30yo can't be compared to 65yo. We all will be there. That's neither good nor bad. That's just the way it is. However, I know people that successfully started their startup company in their 50's.

Or maybe that brand new thing the kids are all excited about is the same old thing re-hashed...and the old folks know it.

What we really need to do is go watch Spinal Tap one more time:

Limo Driver: But it's...it's a passing thing...it's uh.... I mean I would never tell them this but this is uh...this is a fad.

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of older (65+) people, despite their experience, are simply unable to keep up with technology. On that scale age matters, and 30yo can't be compared to 65yo. We all will be there. That's neither good nor bad. That's just the way it is. However, I know people that successfully started their startup company in their 50's.

Whether or not older people, as a rule, can perform as well as a 30yo isn't really my point -- I suppose some can, and most cannot. My point was that I don't agree that the vast majority of people who make it to old age have never become expert at anything. Older folk mostly want to talk about their youth and their grandkids, but that doesn't mean they really don't know anything other than that. They're just no longe…

I agree with you: what do people think happen to the brightest and the best from a few decades ago? They grow old and retire, of course. Perhaps the reason they don't sound like experts to younger folks is because they've become experts in a field we don't care about: how to view life once you have the proper perspective. After a certain point, how many lines of code or how fast your site can scale takes a back seat to how to lower your blood pressure and how to maximize your enjoyment from "simple" pleasure like family and food.

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#19
I want to learn all sorts of new things, but my problem is mostly an inability to decide on what to learn next. For a while, I was looking at Django, and then decided Rails probably had more traction, but then thought "wait! Perhaps node.js is the next big thing and I should start looking at that!" So I tend to graze and have a very shallow understanding of almost everything.

Re: The Greatest Developer Fallacy Or The Wisest Words You’ll Ever Hear?

#20
post #3

My recipe/plan to succeed as a generalist is to fully master the most fundamental building blocks; things that do not change so often. Practice algorithms, implement a lexer, write a web server, a compiler, build a computer, an i/o board, your own network cables etc. Your universe of discourse grows exponentially and it'll be a lot easier to pick up the things that change at a more rapid pace, as you need them.

It is unfortunate how many times my skills crimping RJ-45 connectors has come in handy.
Post reply on HN