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Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

tesla.com

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Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#291

Post by gimmeThaBeet »

xeromal wrote: post #168
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many charging stations does your library have?

4. The McDonald's next door also has 4. And there are paid ones in the street. It's a solid setup.

I wish everywhere was like that, but anecdotally my midwest suburb experience or would-be experience is very different. The only places that have chargers are ~3 grocery stores all 15+ minutes away. Work is a surface lot nowhere near any electricity, let alone a charger. And the garage circuit in my rental house isn't even rated to support 120V charging. Being able to comfortably get an EV will either take years, or a complete change in scenery. :(

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#292

Post by dahfizz »

Klathmon wrote: post #269
csunbird wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the same limit for me. The car should be able to go until I am tired driving it, which is around 6 to 8 hours driving at 120km/h, including breaks of 15-20 minutes each 3 hours. Then I can accept a 30-45 minute break to charge if I have to continue.

Tesla's are already very close to that right now. I used to drive from Florida to Pennsylvania fairly often, and in my model 3 it's a rough cadence of drive for 2.5 to 3 hours, stop at a supercharger for under 30 minutes, repeat until I'm there. And that's with the vast majority of the trip at 75mph/120km/h. It does get worse in the winter though, I need to stop more frequently like every 2 hours, and for more like 3…

I think discussions of range alone are misguided for this reason. The state of charging infrastructure is just as important as the range of the car itself. The 300 mile range on a tesla is fine even for long road trips because the infrastructure is solid.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#293

Post by zpeti »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #287
zpeti wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does actual EPA range numbers matter, when we all know they aren't perfectly accurate? They aren't accurate for ICE cars either. The point is Tesla has increased their range yet again. There is no disputing this fact. If people were buying Teslas before, they're getting even more value out of it now. It seems most people here find this EPA discrepancy a great justification for criticising Tesla, but I highly doub…

Because ideally consumers should be allowed to make informed decisions, which is not possible if one party - willingly or not - misrepresents the numbers. Tesla should be criticized for every number they inflate. Every time they pull some marketing crap, they should be called out on it. If it's such a benefit as you write, why do they feel the need inflate the numbers? What happened to honesty among engineers? Unders…

Is there evidence that they are misleading or cheating? The EPA numbers (I assume) are arrived at with the same methodology for all cars. It's indepedent right? (I have no idea).

So how is Tesla at fault here, if their cars do well. Btw, you can get the EPA range if you drive around 55-60mph... So it is misleading?

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#294

Post by allendoerfer »

lazyjones wrote: post #255
allendoerfer wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inside a (properly designed) city you should not need (to own) a car at all.

Perhaps not everything in life is about need. I presume what you actually wanted to say is: you don't want other people in cities to own cars.

This is a thread about EVs and how a particular feature (range) that is worse than ICU cars is improving over time, which everyone wants, because we need cleaner cars for the environemnt. Nobody in here is taking the position of saying: Who cares? Just use ICU cars forever, there is no problem at all.

So I am argueing a specific point about cities. Because EV cars might be better, but are still objectively bad compared to public transport. So no, it's not about what I want, it's about the underliying point of the whole thread: What I (or really we/our children) need other people to do.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#295

Post by Bedon292 »

steelframe wrote: post #18

I've been following a multi-month discussion over in the r/electricvehicles subreddit about EPA range. There's a growing consensus that something is very wrong with it. Here are a couple of the articles that got some discussion in that sub: https://insideevs.com/news/407807/eletric-car-real-world-ran... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30874032/porsche-tayca... As someone who has owned both a Tesla Model X and o…

My 3 can exceed its rating very easily under the correct conditions. No elevation changes, about 80 degrees out, and cruise control at a steady 60. But any variance from that and it is definitely different. I have a lot of elevation change on my daily commute, and going up those hills fast does the range no favors. But on average I am pretty darn close to the rated distance. Temperature is a huge factor, if its below 45 efficiency is like 70%. If its over 90 efficiency is under 90%. Doing 80 MPH, also pretty bad for the rating. So now do 80 MPH in 95 degree weather and you are talking maybe 80% efficiency. I feel the rating on the 3 has been spot on for me, understanding the large number of variables that go into actual real world use.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#296

Post by allendoerfer »

lazyjones wrote: post #275
Tepix wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Owning a car in a city is dumb. For some cities.

Why? For which cities? I live in the historic city center of a large European city and own a car. It's very comfortable, safe (especially during pandemics) and useful (for transporting things) and it's almost essential for me because I pick up the kids from their mother almost every weekend and that's a 40 Km drive one way, which takes about 3 times as long with public transport (and would force me to bring them back…

I am one of those young, childless egoists and would argue, that most people do not need to own a car in cities. Renting from time to time when I actually need one works great for me.

There are edge-cases and people living 40km away from their children, who are too young to use public transport, might be one of them. I am not saying it should not be allowed to own a car. There will always be edge cases, but if we optimize our rules a bit, many of the great reasons to own a car might go away. Often it is the other way round and people commute into the city to their workplace. I think we can quite easily work towards fixing this one.

I do have an argument, though: Your CO2 footprint is unsustainably big, even with an EV car, and your children have to face the consequences.

Climate aside, it is also ironic, that young children are the ones benefitting the most from carless environments, which is kind of the reason why young families often move out the the suburbs.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#297

Post by 1958325146 »

gimmeThaBeet wrote: post #291
xeromal wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. The McDonald's next door also has 4. And there are paid ones in the street. It's a solid setup.

I wish everywhere was like that, but anecdotally my midwest suburb experience or would-be experience is very different. The only places that have chargers are ~3 grocery stores all 15+ minutes away. Work is a surface lot nowhere near any electricity, let alone a charger. And the garage circuit in my rental house isn't even rated to support 120V charging. Being able to comfortably get an EV will either take years, or…

I charge through a ~40 foot long 120V "extension cord" made of 10 gauge wire and plugged into an appropriately rated outlet. Which is to say, you probably could charge in your garage if you really wanted to.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#298

Post by mywittyname »

alvah wrote: post #143
sgc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For ICE cars, it depends on what the mfg has optimized for. I had an Infinity years ago and I remember that it was optimized for 70mph precisely as per the owner's manual. Higher or lower speeds would be less efficient.

Interesting(ish) tangent - the UK fuel economy specs used to be published at a constant 56mph & 75mph. When the Mk3 Vauxhall Cavalier was launched in the late 1980s, it had great (theoretical) fuel economy, much better than its rivals, but a couple of noticeable flat spots under acceleration. Turned out Vauxhall had leaned the fuel maps at the exact engine revs that corresponded to 56mph and 75mph in top gear...

My old (14) Mustang had exactly the same thing: there was a very noticeable reduction in power at ~2000 RPMs. I always suspected that it was to improve highway fuel economy, as that's exactly where the engine was spinning at 74mph in sixth.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#299

Post by driverdan »

jacobush wrote: post #236
rossjudson wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nobody is going to buy this thing. I commute 250 miles each way to my job, in my pickup truck. Call me back when Tesla makes a real car with real range. Anybody who buys these now is a sucker." Because people keep saying shit like that. Tesla's range increases are a giant experiment to find out at exactly what point opposition to electric collapses.

For me it has always been at a range of 1000 kilometers. (600 miles.)

Most ICE vehicles do not have a 1000 km range.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#300

Post by kazinator »

dahfizz wrote: post #292
Klathmon wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's are already very close to that right now. I used to drive from Florida to Pennsylvania fairly often, and in my model 3 it's a rough cadence of drive for 2.5 to 3 hours, stop at a supercharger for under 30 minutes, repeat until I'm there. And that's with the vast majority of the trip at 75mph/120km/h. It does get worse in the winter though, I need to stop more frequently like every 2 hours, and for more like 3…

I think discussions of range alone are misguided for this reason. The state of charging infrastructure is just as important as the range of the car itself. The 300 mile range on a tesla is fine even for long road trips because the infrastructure is solid.

Obviously, it's not fine for Klathmon, who minds the 30 minute charging stops. A much faster charging time could help independently of the range.

Of course infrastructure outside metropolitan limits is important, since without that you're screwed and can't be even be having a discussion about annoying half hour stops in interstate driving.

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