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How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

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Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow PC Mag seems like the best reference here: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/clientserver It’s hard to see the hype up close sometimes. The closest analogy I can think of and it’s an older one might be how in the mid-2000s everyone needed to make a “Web 2.0 mash-up” or how for awhile everyone needed “social” (remember Ping?)... if you were stuck with a stack based on jQuery and global variables, good lu…

The PC Mag article seems mostly pretty accurate - however, I’d argue that the web isn’t classic client/server, since the server sends the code to the client just in time. Classic client/server had a totally different code deployment mechanism. It was a full app installation every time - often via sneaker network, since few corporate networks had enough bandwidth to deploy new apps over their network. And installation…

> Version control systems? Seldom.

SCCS ftw!

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#322
post #142
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to be honest self driving sounds more useful to mankind ;)

If someone offered me AI that drove me to work while I slept or watched movies, or AI that filled out my expense reports, I'd ask if the AI is able to scan the receipts by itself.

I'd ask the AI to go to work for me, then I'd go hiking in the mountains.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#323
I currently work a "crypto" startup - we've developed our own language and platform for developing smart contracts.

Our CEO constantly talks of "ecosystems" and "blockchain", when that's none of what we actually have (or have concrete requirements to build...).

Our investors and customers have no real idea what they want or what to expect - most of the customers just want a basic enterprise system, but have been wooed by blockchains and AI and magical fairies that sounds really nice in a contract but deliver no value in reality.

The saddest part is that we have an amazing team - the smartest folk I've ever worked with, with so much potential to create amazing technology, if only we had a plan or direction.

Like I saw on another comment, it has all become long lunches and checking out early, because everyone knows the project is doomed (albeit well funded... for now). Where does one even go from here?

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#324
post #77

The problem is that software no-one wants often has the best careers. I worked on a system used by many people and it was hard work, was getting 10-15 years old, held together with tape and lots of users who all had their gripes and requests. I moved to a system hardly used by anyone and life is so much better. Get to play with interesting technology and no one minds because there is now risk of annoying a our users…

That might look good in the short term, but there are many companies and roles which require you to show the actual number of users, or the load of the service that you worked on. Also many technically challenging issues only come out under load, and actually working on challenging things are very different from reading about them. Just my 2 cents.

I do agree that there is a risk of it all crashing down. I dont think they ask us for load or users, but they notice an area where money isn't coming in.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What always drives me crazy about instances like this, is that managers and the c-level seem to be much more willing to listen to some "random" guy or blog over their own people. People they hired, people that have a much better understanding of the issue, the processes and so on. This effect is by no means limited to tech. And engineers, regardless of type, are by no means immune to that as soon as they reach higher…

They're just seeking some outside the box solutions. If you don't course correct, how do you know/show that you're driving?

At my last job, about a month or six weeks after starting, the CTO would meet with new devs and ask them if they thought we were doing anything wrong. He was clear “I have to ask you now because in a month it’s gonna seem perfectly normal to you.”

I recall telling him they were doing builds like no one I had ever seen (“Yes we have a plan to change it.”) and and asking why do you use R as the main language for the ETL pipeline (“It makes it easier for data science and we can run it in Spark.”)

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#326
> Instead, they are usually focused on making sure the team is building what their boss thinks should be built.

This rings so true. I vowed to never again work with companies with non technical leadership for this reason. My career so far has mostly been building features nobody wanted for people who are trying to impress management and/or VCs.

> The less technical the dev manager is, the more likely they are to be ignorant of technical debt, that is until customer escalations become politically untenable. This life cycle is why the engineering VP job has about a one year lifespan at many companies who run Idea Silos.

I've never heard of this concept of idea silos before. It makes so much sense. At my last company it was even worse. I had 4 managers over 2 years, yet the more senior management gave the VP of engineering free reign to make whatever changes he wanted (yes, they were all men), so the system was a cobbled-together mess of half baked features as a result of each manager coming in trying to make sweeping changes to show off their "scrum" skills.

> Engineers are problem solvers, and if the primary problem becomes delivering Something™ that will pass QA by the Date™, they will, with enough pressure, solve that exact problem.

Ahhh I can't even handle how accurate this is. You should have seen the spreadsheets and meetings we had about sizing and building roadmaps. The entire engineering department's job became keeping managers at bay by producing roadmap items on schedule. There were meetings upon meetings about "metrics", which were just numbers we made up but put into a fancy spreadsheet, because doing calculations on made up numbers makes them appear more legitimate than raw made up numbers.

The majority of the effort of our department was wasted on features nobody wanted. They sounded impressive and apparently were cool enough to keep investors satisfied. This company also went to great lengths to re-brand itself as an "AI" company, whatever that means, even though none of the people in charge had the slightest idea what AI was really capable of or how it would benefit the business.

The worst part is that it took so long for me to realize I was wasting my time. After the third major feature I delivered to be used by absolutely nobody I realized we were out of sync with reality. I thought I had made this great discovery and was almost excited to bring it up because I thought it would be a great opportunity to change to do better by our customers. Instead I was met with a response that essentially amounted to "shut up, know your place, and give me code", which is when I realized I was really just a cog in this machine designed to get engineering VPs bullet points for their CVs, and left.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#327
post #261

A small team in a company I worked for got into machine learning a few years back. They had some success with some toy examples and were now looking for applications. They tried to use it for optimizing some specific engineering procesess. Two people (one was me) were warning them that this is a waste of time and will cost the company a fortune and then no one will want it because the quality will be so much poorer.…

It's hard to take a lesson from this without hearing why you think that happened. Do you think the product got so big because the team applied AI usefully and your initial evaluation was wrong? Or do you think they gained customers because there is not much competition in that niche and customers were drawn to the sales team's claims of AI despite the AI not being very good?

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I showed them the data and told them I was right. I think we should do this more often. Measure the performance of our managers and confront them with the data.

Making the uppers look stupid is a dangerous move in the corporate world.

Yes, but very satisfying.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#329

Obviously using a throwaway here. Our board members got it into their heads that successful companies must have an AI "play", so they instructed the CEO to invest about 10% of our development budget on AI. We are doing absolutely inane projects that have no hope of succeeding. We serve a niche industry where certified professionals have to do certain tasks personally, instead of being able to delegate to secretaries.…

I've had a very similar experience. I'm surprised at how little so many managers and investors understand AI.

They talk about it like it's some sort of panacea that will make a company automatically grow 10x. Then you ask them what they actually want you to build and... Crickets.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#330

Did anyone here work on implementing Bing web search into the Windows 10 start menu? I'm curious to know the decisions that led to an operating system file search prompt ignoring exact file, directory and app names in favor of trying (and generally still failing) to show irrelevant web results.

Perhaps it was driven by the Bing team's request for more ad impressions. The Windows product manager might have wanted the feature to satisfy the Bing team, without deluding themselves into thinking Windows users would like the feature.
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