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Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

tesla.com

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Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#251

Post by Milner08 »

arethuza wrote: post #234
octorian wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nobody is going to buy this thing. I commute 250 miles each way to my job, in my pickup truck, hauling a load of lumber to a cabin 100 miles from civilization. There's no electricity out there. Call me back when Tesla makes a real car with real range. Anybody who buys these now is a sucker." FTFY. There's one of these in EVERY discussion of something Tesla releases :-)

To make your day I will add a post like that. A typical weekend for me involves driving ~150 miles to leave my car in the cold and wet in the middle of nowhere for 8 to 9 hours while I wander around some mountains. Only 2 superchargers in the country and their not between where I live and where I go. Is this unusual - absolutely (mind you plenty people here do similar things) - but range is an important factor to me.…

You use £ so I assume UK, but there are way more than 2 super chargers in the UK... So I assume youre talking about Wales as I dont think they have many. They do have plenty of other types of chargers though.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#252

Post by safgasCVS »

steelframe wrote: post #18

I've been following a multi-month discussion over in the r/electricvehicles subreddit about EPA range. There's a growing consensus that something is very wrong with it. Here are a couple of the articles that got some discussion in that sub: https://insideevs.com/news/407807/eletric-car-real-world-ran... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30874032/porsche-tayca... As someone who has owned both a Tesla Model X and o…

Don’t single Tesla out on this. No car manages to get its official mpg/EPA rating in real-world driving conditions. Some get closer than others and some manufacturers (eg Fiat) designed their motors in a way that maximises their performance on standardised tests. The gap between how ‘hard’ the car has to work to achieve the real world driving conditions vs test conditions plays a big part in the differential. Smaller motors with forced inductions are the worst offenders. Larger motors are more honest citizens.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#253

Post by eloisant »

gsnedders wrote: post #127
jakswa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think regen braking is perfect (70% efficient maybe?). And if the battery is full, regen braking is disabled/lessened.

Even with 100% efficiency of the powertrain you'll end up with less charge than you started with. Yes, with 100% you get the energy used to overcome gravity back, but you still have frictional (tyres have friction!) and aerodynamic (we have an atmosphere!) losses that need to be accounted for both uphill and downhill. But yes, powertrain loses exacerbate the power consumption.

The question is whether flat or hill makes a difference. Surely friction and aerodynamic would be the same?

Also: friction of tyres don't make you consume energy, it's what makes the car move actually (with no tire friction you won't move at all).

The friction that makes you consume energy is within the wheels, gears, etc that are supposed to slide, also the deformation of tires makes you consume energy (which is why consumption is higher with under-inflated tires).

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#254

Post by [deleted] »

davidwhodge wrote: post #92
steelframe wrote: post #18

I've been following a multi-month discussion over in the r/electricvehicles subreddit about EPA range. There's a growing consensus that something is very wrong with it. Here are a couple of the articles that got some discussion in that sub: https://insideevs.com/news/407807/eletric-car-real-world-ran... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30874032/porsche-tayca... As someone who has owned both a Tesla Model X and o…

I make an app (called Nikola, not the truck company) for Tesla owners that has seen over 5 MM miles driven on it. I did some quick queries to validate actual range vs. EPA range for those curious. My general takeaway is to see the EPA range as a useful, albeit unrealistic, indicator. Essentially nobody gets the EPA range, either because they choose not to go the speed limit, they accelerate harder than the EPA test f…

[deleted]

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#255

Post by lazyjones »

allendoerfer wrote: post #239
codecamper wrote: post #225

dear Tesla. I live in a city.

Inside a (properly designed) city you should not need (to own) a car at all.

Perhaps not everything in life is about need.

I presume what you actually wanted to say is: you don't want other people in cities to own cars.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#256

Post by arethuza »

Milner08 wrote: post #251
arethuza wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make your day I will add a post like that. A typical weekend for me involves driving ~150 miles to leave my car in the cold and wet in the middle of nowhere for 8 to 9 hours while I wander around some mountains. Only 2 superchargers in the country and their not between where I live and where I go. Is this unusual - absolutely (mind you plenty people here do similar things) - but range is an important factor to me.…

You use £ so I assume UK, but there are way more than 2 super chargers in the UK... So I assume youre talking about Wales as I dont think they have many. They do have plenty of other types of chargers though.

Actually - Google seemed to get this wrong the first time I searched I'm in Scotland and there appears to be five superchargers and there are indeed other chargers. I'd say maybe half the time I go anywhere I drive through Perth - so that's not too bad.

Still, I'm not going to pay way more money for a car that makes my days in the hills even longer! The cost aspect is by far the main reason I haven't bought an EV.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#257

Post by arethuza »

bkor wrote: post #247
arethuza wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make your day I will add a post like that. A typical weekend for me involves driving ~150 miles to leave my car in the cold and wet in the middle of nowhere for 8 to 9 hours while I wander around some mountains. Only 2 superchargers in the country and their not between where I live and where I go. Is this unusual - absolutely (mind you plenty people here do similar things) - but range is an important factor to me.…

> Is this unusual - absolutely Often these claims are made while saying that it's a normal requirement and that everyone has the same requirement, thus nobody will buy it. Cost is an important factor. I think a lot of people already would like to buy one, if they're way cheaper (also way cheaper than £25k). I've seen articles about new battery tech which focusses on cost quite a bit. So hopefully the cost of a new el…

If someone makes an EV with 350 mile range, decent specifications and costs £25K I'll buy two.

Edit: I don't care about performance - my current car as a 1l engine and it is fine.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#258

Post by lazyjones »

jodrellblank wrote: post #79
anonymousiam wrote: post #57

They are lying. I was in the market for a new car earlier this year, and I really wanted to get a Tesla. I also really wanted a car that could handle a trip of 295 miles that I regularly make. I will not go into the nightmare that was scheduling a test drive of the long-range Model S, but after getting conflicting answers from multiple PoCs at Tesla, I finally got the firm answer. The car cannot do even my 295 mile c…

The BMW i3 has had the perfect electric car design for the last 7+ years - a battery pack good for ~50-120 miles (increased with model revisions) and a gasoline generator "range extender" with a small tank for indefinite length journeys hopping between standard gas stations - which are abundant. It improves on hybrid-car designs: the engine isn't connected to the drive train, so it's a lot less complex, and the engin…

> why don't more electric car makers offer something like this?

Because nobody is buying it. Even BMW retired the rex version because it was not popular enough.

The simple explanation is that many better plug-in hybrid cars are available for those who want such a thing, many of them at a better price, with more space.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#259

Post by lazyjones »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #136
jodrellblank wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BMW i3 has had the perfect electric car design for the last 7+ years - a battery pack good for ~50-120 miles (increased with model revisions) and a gasoline generator "range extender" with a small tank for indefinite length journeys hopping between standard gas stations - which are abundant. It improves on hybrid-car designs: the engine isn't connected to the drive train, so it's a lot less complex, and the engin…

Range axienty disappears as you get familiar with driving an EV with trip planning. Charging time is already short enough with version 3 of Tesla Superchargers. Availability of charging points isn't an issue when you charge at home/work. Hybrids are just adding complexity, cost and air pollution.

> Range axienty disappears as you get familiar with driving an EV with trip planning.

It's true, but in some parts of the world (e.g. eastern Europe) it has been replaced with "what charging cards or apps do I need" anxiety.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#260

Post by csunbird »

jacobush wrote: post #236
rossjudson wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nobody is going to buy this thing. I commute 250 miles each way to my job, in my pickup truck. Call me back when Tesla makes a real car with real range. Anybody who buys these now is a sucker." Because people keep saying shit like that. Tesla's range increases are a giant experiment to find out at exactly what point opposition to electric collapses.

For me it has always been at a range of 1000 kilometers. (600 miles.)

It is the same limit for me. The car should be able to go until I am tired driving it, which is around 6 to 8 hours driving at 120km/h, including breaks of 15-20 minutes each 3 hours. Then I can accept a 30-45 minute break to charge if I have to continue.
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