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GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

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Re: GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

#231

I don't think "main" is a good replacement because it loses the notion of it being a branch where the finalized and production ready code goes. It could just as easily mean "where we do all the work" (i.e. trunk based development, which I also dislike the name of), and I think that's potentially confusing to new people even more than "master" (although not as offensive to some people apparently). If I'm going to rena…

I just use "trunk" as my root branch. I remain astounded that nobody seems to want to use this, when there's already existing architectural practices surrounding it.

Has anybody thought about how "trunk" might make elephant coders feel?

Re: GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does replacing a handful of offensive terms with more accurate words require "restructuring the entire English language"? Unless you can make a case for that, the logical conclusion is that those handful of words will go out of favor and the impact to the "entire English language" will be negligible.

> Why does replacing a handful of offensive terms You want to rewrite parts the language because a few people are offended? Do you realize how often people are offended at the most miniscule and obnoxious things? I think the slippery slope argument applies here. Secondly, from looking at the history of the term whitelist/blacklist, they are not rooted racially. Why does there need to be any more discussion here? This…

> You want to rewrite parts the language because a few people are offended?

No I don't. I want to use the word denylist instead of blacklist. So do other people and companies. Other words have gone in and out of fashion without rewriting parts of the language. Yes, the slippery slope logical fallacy definitely applies here. You are greatly exaggerating what's happening or what could happen as the result of using a word with a clearer meaning, in professional settings.

> the history of the term whitelist/blacklist, they are not rooted racially.

The continued use of the word black to mean "evil" in the workplace and white to mean "good" while those terms both also apply to people's race is the history of the past few decades. In a society where people are being systemically oppressed on the basis of race. And it just so happens "coincidentally" that it is the oppressed minority that gets to hear that the same name for their race means "evil" on a regular basis at work. No thanks.

> Do you realize how often people are offended at the most miniscule and obnoxious things?

> This isn't PoC crying for change.

Choose one?

PoC are asking for change about these specific terms, and it came up as early as the 1970s. This has been an ongoing conversation that you have not been a part of. A simple search will help you educate yourself about the specific PoC who have complained in various formats including scholarly articles, presentations at public meetings, as well as editorials, and blogs. In addition to these specific terms, the larger subject under which this falls is microagressions, and you will find countless sources from PoC talking about that issue and why it is important to fix.

Re: GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little confused about why GitHub is doing this. The master/slave thing I get - there's a direct link to actual slavery there, and it can be replaced with terms like leader/follower or primary/replica fairly easily. But the "master" branch in Git doesn't have a slave branch. It's a master from which copies are made (as in a "master recording"), which is a different sense of the word.

Bitkeeper had master/slave repositories, and that's where git's use of the word master came from.

I'm going to need a source for that. I can't find any reference to slave in Bitkeeper documentation.

Re: GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really funny how you fail to realize that "slave" comes from "Slav".

I'll add that to my list of reasons for removing master/slave from technical terminology. Thank you.

Are you a Slav?

Because I am, and I did not ask for this. Find me one Slav who requested this.

And yet, you thinking about the word association is all it took to imagine you you're helping someone with that. Because, hypothetically, there might be someone who is offended. For some reason.

Who thought about renaming master? As far as I know, a white person. Somehow, all these fuckups are started by white people in the US on behalf of minorities. I can imagine how it went:

"master branch... hmm, where does this naming convention come from anyway? Maybe master/slave? Hm, slavery is bad. That means the term master here might possibly offend someone. Welp, let's change it then! Oh, and it'd also excuse my job role of Dev Relations. I'm definitively useful!"

Or an academic in very-soft sciences instead of Dev Relations. I just saw some Dev Relations people on Twitter being very srs about this crap.

Meanwhile, all the software is broken. Feeling like it's held together by duct tape. Consuming more and more resources as time goes on, while functionality decreases.

All of this is excused by talking about programmer time. "Programmer time is more valuable".

Yeah, so valuable we'll be wasting time on this crap. And some things will break, maybe. Some will be fixed, some not. Some manual/help resources will be left in their original, horribly racist form. Some will be rewritten.

Oh, and there's the little cost of making politics just a tiny bit more toxic.

Anyway: when I learned the term for my ethnicity is basically the same word as slave, I thought "Hmm, that's interesting/cool fact" I'm pretty sure all the people react this way if at all.

I don't believe Blacks in the US are as unreasonable as you all paint them. I think you're all pretty damn racist for implying otherwise.

Re: GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does replacing a handful of offensive terms You want to rewrite parts the language because a few people are offended? Do you realize how often people are offended at the most miniscule and obnoxious things? I think the slippery slope argument applies here. Secondly, from looking at the history of the term whitelist/blacklist, they are not rooted racially. Why does there need to be any more discussion here? This…

> You want to rewrite parts the language because a few people are offended? No I don't. I want to use the word denylist instead of blacklist. So do other people and companies. Other words have gone in and out of fashion without rewriting parts of the language. Yes, the slippery slope logical fallacy definitely applies here. You are greatly exaggerating what's happening or what could happen as the result of using a wo…

> The continued use of the word black to mean "evil" in the workplace and white to mean "good" while those terms both also apply to people's race is the history of the past few decades.

Humongous strawman. Blacklists aren't inherently 'bad', but you've applied that label to it. You could just as easily argue that blacklists are good, i.e. prevent DoS attacks or spam. Conversely you can argue that whitelists are good.

> A simple search will help you educate yourself about the specific PoC who have complained in various formats including scholarly articles, presentations at public meetings, as well as editorials, and blogs.

No, the onus is on you if you want to change language. It is not something people will just do without being convinced.

Re: GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

#236
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

> just because America has a racism problem. > I, and my country, do not share these problems. Your country definitely has a racism problem. Where do you live? We'll give you a fucking enormous list of both the historic racism and current day racism for that country.

Cops aren't gunning people down in my country, so no, I think things are fine here.

Re: GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

#237
post #226
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then please delete it. I have no delete button. You have already deleted my original answer to which the fellow made an unobjective comment against my integrity. As it stands now, a wrong impression about the course of the conversation is created. Therefore please also delete https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23519104 .

Just for the record: this is the quotation that the fellow managed to make disappear by flagging: "Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it." George Orwell, 1984 I really don't understand why someone sees the necessity to flag something like this. It perfectly fits t…

You posted the quote as a top-level comment with no other information (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23518702). That was obviously ideological flamebait, and really a form of name-calling, so it was rightly flagged.

Also, it's a red herring to bring up the fact that your top-level comment was flagged, when you degenerated into outrageous violations of the guidelines later in the thread. You can't do that, and if you do it again we will ban you—not because we're Orwellian villains, but because it's not ok to vandalize this site.

Would you please review the site guidelines? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

#238
post #16

I always understood a VCS “master” branch to be in reference to “master” records / the “mastering” process of audio mixing, which in turn is a use of a sense of the verb “to master” akin to “to master one’s courage”—not conveying dominance, but rather the reaching of an apex in skill. If you’re in the market for a replacement that keeps the metaphorical power, though, I might suggest having a “mother” branch. “Mother…

We should think what will the term after “mother” will be, while we’re at the drawing board.

In a few years time, not everyone will have a mother, as thats gendering a guardian. To imply someone must have a mother is oppressive to all the fathers, especially people who have both parents as fathers.

But, I may be misspeaking. Whose to say either one of their guardians are a mother, or a father. That would be too binary of me.

/s

Re: GitHub to replace “master” with alternative term to avoid slavery references

#240
post #237
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for the record: this is the quotation that the fellow managed to make disappear by flagging: "Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it." George Orwell, 1984 I really don't understand why someone sees the necessity to flag something like this. It perfectly fits t…

You posted the quote as a top-level comment with no other information ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23518702 ). That was obviously ideological flamebait, and really a form of name-calling, so it was rightly flagged. Also, it's a red herring to bring up the fact that your top-level comment was flagged, when you degenerated into outrageous violations of the guidelines later in the thread. You can't do that, an…

As you can see, I am here under my real identity. I would not intentionally do what you are accusing me of here; and even having read your guidelines for several times now, and although I have also studied law and am used to reading and understanding regulations, I would not have come to the conclusion that my actions violate them; it's certainly not "obvious". At least now I understand how you interpret your guidelines in the present case.
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