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How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

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Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#121

Post by petre »

vxNsr wrote: post #100
bob33212 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had a couple conversations where a business guy starts off with a decent idea then he says something like "the cognitive AI module will fill out your expense report after watching you do it for a couple weeks". What the fuck? If I had the ability to code a cognitive AI module which could do that I would not be building it for you, I would solve self driving and license the software for billions.

Solve self driving? How bout market prediction and just play the market forever. Why would you risk failure when you can just do nothing and make trillions?

Financier Martin Armstrong claims to have exactly such a system but it doesn't predict the market, it only makes quite accurate market forecasts.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#122

Post by xingped »

epberry wrote: post #108
noizejoy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story would probably make little sense to most HN readers, since it's very old and what was very non-obvious back then, became very obvious 5 years later. Around 1994/95 client/server was unassailable in board rooms (much like AI is now). And after initially speaking up against it, I ended up shutting up about my criticism of that architectural approach, since it would have just gotten me fired. So I ended up sne…

Doesn't this speak more to the board's astounding foresight than inane projects?

I think he's saying the "foresight parts" were his initiatives, not the board's, and the board's part in it all had to be scrapped sooner rather than later while his initiatives did not.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#123

Post by product50 »

nurettin wrote: post #4

> Don't just build Something™, build an industry leading product that customers want and love! The point of writing software is to get paid. If the process leads to something actually useful, good on you. If not, you still got paid. It was just a drill, life continues.

This is terrible advice and this type of thinking is a common indicator of an employee who is not motivated. The goal is to not just build but build products customers want.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#124

Post by lstamour »

epberry wrote: post #108
noizejoy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story would probably make little sense to most HN readers, since it's very old and what was very non-obvious back then, became very obvious 5 years later. Around 1994/95 client/server was unassailable in board rooms (much like AI is now). And after initially speaking up against it, I ended up shutting up about my criticism of that architectural approach, since it would have just gotten me fired. So I ended up sne…

Doesn't this speak more to the board's astounding foresight than inane projects?

Somehow PC Mag seems like the best reference here: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/clientserver

It’s hard to see the hype up close sometimes. The closest analogy I can think of and it’s an older one might be how in the mid-2000s everyone needed to make a “Web 2.0 mash-up” or how for awhile everyone needed “social” (remember Ping?)... if you were stuck with a stack based on jQuery and global variables, good luck transitioning to React without Facebook’s scale. Sometimes all you can do is try to stay organized, see a project through and hope it can evolve to something greater after the fad wears off...

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#125

Post by gloryless »

nurettin wrote: post #4

> Don't just build Something™, build an industry leading product that customers want and love! The point of writing software is to get paid. If the process leads to something actually useful, good on you. If not, you still got paid. It was just a drill, life continues.

I don't think it is. In my experience this attitude produces poor work and is a drain on the rest of the team.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#126

Post by m463 »

sukilot wrote: post #98
rurp wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I worked at a store with registers that didn't calculate change; myself and the other cashiers would need to calculate the change mentally. Once in a while I would get people like this who threw out convoluted amounts of change. Normally it was fine, but sometimes towards the end of a long day when my brain was tired I wanted to strangle them. The store actually had really great employees overall and I susp…

"How about you tell me how much change you are expecting" and then add to check.

Is that like putting a total on a restaurant check and leaving the tip "as an exercise for the server?"

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#127

Post by Apocryphon »

sukilot wrote: post #119
Apocryphon wrote: post #89

Don't want this to turn into a big politics tangent, but I've thought that one use case for a tech workers union is to be able to push back against questionable business decisions from management. I've seen places where engineers and other ICs, some team leads and managers, those with far more experience and clout at me, voice skepticism against questionable product decisions coming from upper management, only to rec…

Imagine if your tech guild had the power to promote tech priorities over business concerns, and drive the company out of business. If your tech team is better than management at running the business, quit and form a competitor.

That's honestly not a bad idea- I've seen high exec turnover resulting from their own mistakes, and much of the engineering team might have been happier together under different leadership. Worked for Fairchild Semiconductor, I suppose.

Who's to say that technical priorities aren't worth prioritizing? How many times do companies treat their tech as a cost center rather than a profit center, leading to expensive mistakes? I don't understand why one would want to be an apologist for the Pointy-Haired Bosses, unless they themselves are in management.

Everyone thinks corporate fiat rule is the best way to lead- until they find themselves outvoted on a stupid initiative. Perhaps the right way to respond to it is to vote with your feet, and leave. But again, that seems like a waste if the course is salvageable.

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#128

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

hieunc229 wrote: post #65
bob33212 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had a couple conversations where a business guy starts off with a decent idea then he says something like "the cognitive AI module will fill out your expense report after watching you do it for a couple weeks". What the fuck? If I had the ability to code a cognitive AI module which could do that I would not be building it for you, I would solve self driving and license the software for billions.

Business guys usually comes together and brag about their works. Quite often, they start to talk about things they heard but don’t understand much. And the other one hear about it, get excited, but also don’t understand much. Then on the meeting, he brought the idea up and convince everyone to do it. The next you know, you’re pulling your hair out trying to understand what is going on

I know a guy that works at a company where the CEO will sell something to customers not knowing anything about the technical details, and then come back to the business and "make them do it".

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#129

Post by siscia »

gretch wrote: post #107
mathewsanders wrote: post #5

“Agile teams that truly iterate with the customer can often avoid these problems because the customer is there the whole way through and the team continuously pivots to close gaps discovered by the customer throughout the project, thereby building something the customer actually needs and wants.” I‘m 2 years into my first role as a product owner (made the switch from design) and working at a fortune 100. The thing th…

I've worked 6 years as a PM, last 4 at FANG Here's some advice, which you are free to take or to leave, (and that's very reasonable since my advice is generic and I can't speak to your exact circumstances) 1) Just start doing it. Don't wait for someone to give you permission to prioritize customer needs. Pick up the phone and call them. Go to a store and watch them shop for your product. Talk to people. When you set…

Many thanks!

Re: How many of you know that the team is working on something that no-one wants?

#130

Post by kqr »

lstamour wrote: post #124
epberry wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this speak more to the board's astounding foresight than inane projects?

Somehow PC Mag seems like the best reference here: https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/clientserver It’s hard to see the hype up close sometimes. The closest analogy I can think of and it’s an older one might be how in the mid-2000s everyone needed to make a “Web 2.0 mash-up” or how for awhile everyone needed “social” (remember Ping?)... if you were stuck with a stack based on jQuery and global variables, good lu…

> if you were stuck with a stack based on jQuery and global variables, good luck transitioning to React without Facebook’s scale.

My team is doing exactly this on my initiative and seeing some positive effects already, even though we're only like 2% of the way there. Would you mind expanding on what you think is futile about it? I wouldn't want to be the one advocating something that with hindsight will look obviously stupid.

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