Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

tesla.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 358 posts

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#91

Post by jodrellblank »

Someone1234 wrote: post #31
steelframe wrote: post #18

I've been following a multi-month discussion over in the r/electricvehicles subreddit about EPA range. There's a growing consensus that something is very wrong with it. Here are a couple of the articles that got some discussion in that sub: https://insideevs.com/news/407807/eletric-car-real-world-ran... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30874032/porsche-tayca... As someone who has owned both a Tesla Model X and o…

I'm surprised Tesla fans haven't crowd sourced accurate data by now.

Given that Tesla track everything on every car - where they go, how they drive, when and how much they charge - they ought to have accurate data themselves apart from EPA ratings.

Could customers demand their own data from Tesla? Europeans, under the GDPR, for example? If enough people did, and released it, that ought to be accurate.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#92

Post by davidwhodge »

steelframe wrote: post #18

I've been following a multi-month discussion over in the r/electricvehicles subreddit about EPA range. There's a growing consensus that something is very wrong with it. Here are a couple of the articles that got some discussion in that sub: https://insideevs.com/news/407807/eletric-car-real-world-ran... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30874032/porsche-tayca... As someone who has owned both a Tesla Model X and o…

I make an app (called Nikola, not the truck company) for Tesla owners that has seen over 5 MM miles driven on it. I did some quick queries to validate actual range vs. EPA range for those curious.

My general takeaway is to see the EPA range as a useful, albeit unrealistic, indicator. Essentially nobody gets the EPA range, either because they choose not to go the speed limit, they accelerate harder than the EPA test factored in, or the vehicles drain some juice while parked.

The data: For the hundreds of Nikola trips with an average speed of 60 mph, the actual MPGe was about 102. Once you get up to a 75 MPH average trip speed, the MPGe drops to 94. And by 80 MPH the MPGe drops to 77. (avg over all Tesla types)

As a bit of "anecdata", I've driven trips where I hit my range on the nose, just to show I could, but the driving is less fun and I was going slower than traffic. I don't drive that way anymore.

What's most striking to me as someone who has heard over and over again about how air resistance is a X^2 property, is the extent to which short (and presumably slow) trips punch above their weight in terms of range consumed per mile. From what I can tell, the actual cost here is the fixed cost of booting up some systems and electronics, and the variable costs of running them over fewer miles can make the MPGe drop. Starting and continuing to run the AC adds up!

edit: have had some people ask. The app can be found at https://download.nikolaapp.com

I can also post data / graphs or make a blog post about that if people have more requests. Let me know what you'd like to see!

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#93

Post by anonymousiam »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #78
anonymousiam wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a deal breaker for me. I don't want to spend an extra hour detouring to the charging station, possibly waiting in line, and then getting only enough of a charge to complete my journey. I would rather do all of my charging in one of my garages.

Charge to 95% from home so you'd only have to stop for a few minutes. That is highly recommended for your safety anyway.

My point is that with a 100% charge from driveway to driveway, My 295 mile trip would still require a stop for a 20 minute charge (not counting all of the logistics associated with that). As posted elsewhere in this thread, http://www.tesla.com/trips is still reporting the exact same numbers it was in January when I gave up and bought my new car.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#94

Post by anonymousiam »

abfan1127 wrote: post #90
anonymousiam wrote: post #57

They are lying. I was in the market for a new car earlier this year, and I really wanted to get a Tesla. I also really wanted a car that could handle a trip of 295 miles that I regularly make. I will not go into the nightmare that was scheduling a test drive of the long-range Model S, but after getting conflicting answers from multiple PoCs at Tesla, I finally got the firm answer. The car cannot do even my 295 mile c…

295 mi commute? how many days a week is that monster?

Less than twice a month.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#95

Post by metrokoi »

gimmeThaBeet wrote: post #17
new_realist wrote: post #9

The Hyundai Nexo EV is already at 380 miles, and it’s a real SUV, not a flat-as-a-pancake Model S. It refuels in five minutes, to boot, but is only practical in California. If they increased tank volume by 5% it’d be at 400 miles EPA.

That looks pretty sweet honestly. I know it's not a far out take, but my feeling with the established car makers that are doing fuel cells (e.g. Toyota, and in that model Hyundai), want to learn how to build cars that run on electricity, and put too many eggs into where the electricity comes from. From the outside it looks frustrating that they are not going full tilt while Tesla does Tesla things, but I hope I see w…

I think they realize all electric cars will not be the largest share of the market when hydrocarbon vehicles are phased out. The biggest reason for not owning an electric vehicle is the charging time and range. Toyota and Hyundai aren't going all in on all electric because they would rather focus on capturing the fuel cell market which will be as large as the hydrocarbon vehicle market is today.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#96

Post by jakswa »

anonymousiam wrote: post #66
pengaru wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live somewhere flat or hilly/mountainous?

Hills shouldn't make much of a difference. The car has regenerative braking so hilly or flat, it should have similar range.

I don't think regen braking is perfect (70% efficient maybe?). And if the battery is full, regen braking is disabled/lessened.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#97

Post by caf »

Reason077 wrote: post #45
pkulak wrote: post #29

Wow, they are doing brake blending now? I'd be interested to know how good their implementation is. I always assumed they refused to do it because it's so damn hard to perfect.

Tesla doesn't do any blending of the brake pedal. Pressing the brake pedal always applies the friction brakes only. However, since a software update last year, they have had a one-pedal driving mode (Stopping mode "Hold"). In this mode, the vehicle is able to come to a complete stop without using the brake pedal, using a blend of re-gen and friction brakes to do so. In practice, it means it uses re-gen down to a very…

The Model 3 with the current software in "Normal" regen mode does apply more regen when you use the brake pedal, at least as reported by the regen indicator.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#98

Post by ogre_codes »

new_realist wrote: post #19
boardwaalk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully speaking, if you read to the second sentence, you'd learn the range is an EPA rating.

I think they mean they’re waiting for the EPA to test it themselves. Tesla conducts and self-certifies their own tests, and to my knowledge the EPA has never tested one in their own lab.

> the EPA has never tested one in their own lab.

That would make Tesla's prior claims about the EPA screwing the mileage tests up a couple months ago quite odd.

https://electrek.co/2020/04/29/tesla-model-s-400-mile-range-...

> The CEO claimed that the EPA left the door open and the key inside the car when stopping during range testing, resulting in the car remaining powered up and losing 2% of battery capacity.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#99

Post by [deleted] »

new_realist wrote: post #19
boardwaalk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully speaking, if you read to the second sentence, you'd learn the range is an EPA rating.

I think they mean they’re waiting for the EPA to test it themselves. Tesla conducts and self-certifies their own tests, and to my knowledge the EPA has never tested one in their own lab.

[deleted]

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#100

Post by clouddrover »

SEJeff wrote: post #28
new_realist wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other EVs have been using heat pumps for years, like the i3 and LEAF. I don’t know why they didn’t go with it for the 3, or retrofit it to the S and X.

Not one like this. The Model 3 "superbottle" was the best in the industry for the problem they were trying to solve with it. The Model Y "octovalve" heat pump is the successor and does things even better (and it is patented FYI). https://insideevs.com/news/408437/tesla-model-y-teardown-hea...

All I see in the video is a description of a heat pump. In what way is Tesla's heat pump better than, for example, Hyundai's:

https://press.kia.com/eu/en/home/media-resouces/press-releas...

Post reply on HN