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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#541

I'm part Native American, and while I support BLM, Native Americans are facing the exact same tragic societal problems and discrimination as black people. If GitHub supports BLM they should also support Native American Lives Matter.

I wish people didn't downvote this. I've spent time in the South Dakota Reservations, and if you've seen those, you would know what I'm talking about.

Usually downvoting here means that a comment is too close to the truth or that it deviates from the officially sanctioned topic, here BLM.

So some regard any deviance as an affront or "whataboutism".

Personal anecdotes are also often downvoted, since neither the salon socialists nor the monetarists want to hear them. It is crucial that one stays in one's own bubble.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#542
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a private entity, especially for essentially political reasons, is lunacy. Um, think you've got this backwards. Private entities shouldn't have to take on anyone they don't want as customers (for whatever reason - do you have to justify who you do or don't want in your livingroom?), but publicly-funded institutions shouldn't be able to deny service o…

I am strongly against a private business being able to refuse service to a person/organization on political grounds, even when the "victim" may seem to be performing evil actions, as long as it is not breaking any laws. One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination. When you aim that towards your own Government…

> One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion.

Hasn’t that ship already sailed? The cake shop ruling by the Supreme Court seems to point to yes.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not you, and I can't imagine what your situation is That's right. You don't know. > I'll bet whatever precious little civil rights laws that are enforced wherever you are has probably has helped you more than you know. So how can you even make that statement?

> That's right. You don't know. Why don't you enlighten us instead of playing coy?

What, do you want specific details?

In the mid 80s, My parents took me to a diner, specifically BOB AND EDITH's on columbia pike, in Arlington VA. During the 80s, Asian Americans were very rare in the Washington DC area, and moreover, there was a trade war going on between the US and Japan. It was fashionable at the time for short fiction to feature dystopian US futures where the active currency was the Yen. We arrived at the diner, and sat at the diner for three hours before leaving without having been served. I'm not sure that I would have preferred being served and had my food spat in, which I know happened, because friends in high school told me stories of that kind of stuff happening in the food services industry.

What else do you want to know? Do you want to know that while working for the federal government, my Father was basically ignored and had zero work friends except for the only Jewish coworker, and so I grew up in the DC area observing Jewish holidays and attending Bar and Bat Mitvahs?

Do you want to know that I was rejected for admission to MIT, despite having gotten AP CS and Calculus scores of 5 in the 9th grade, and placing at the International Science Fair, though someone else at my school (a friend, btw) got lower grades than I did and did get admission to MIT [0]? Do you want to know that my father pressured me to ask a family acquaintance (who happened to be the chair of the House Science and Technology Committee, I carpooled with his kid to elementary school) but I told him not to (and thus don't owe anything to the author of the PATRIOT act?)

Do you want to know that my father was passed over from promotion "no leadership potential" within that same government unit (the Veterans Administration) despite, in his part-time job with the US Navy, he rose to the rank of captain (O6) and in his last stint was in charge of a group of programmers (despite not being one himself) who implemented the US Navy's first fully-digitized inventory database, ahead of schedule and underbudget?

Do you want to know that while working for the VA, he identified that asian american veterans in hawaii, some of whom were medal of honor recipients, disproportionately did not seek the benefits they were entitled to and initiated outreach to them (via his personal desk) make sure they got the care they were entitled to, then was slammed for being racist, despite the fact that his personal outreach also helped black, white, and latino veterans in Hawaii? Is it also ironic that this was brought down by Democrat appointees and he found redress and correction of the situation by a Republican appointee?

Do you want to know that my father identified elder neglect and a dangerous health situation (black mold) at a veterans facility (long before the very public scandals at Walter Reed, btw), and instead of having the issue dealt with he was rubber-roomed into a windowless room in the same veteran's facility, exiled across the campus from the main office where decisions were being made?

Honestly for all of the secondary effects that systemic racism had on my dad, and indirectly, on the stress it put on our relationship, I at least got some solace when a (white, not that it matters) marine corps colonel that I'd never met before got up at his funeral and gave a fire and brimstone speech about how my dad was a victim of low grade corruption and racism in the federal bureaucracy and in was ultimately a hero in the American spirit, in his military job and more importantly in his activism in his civilian job as a bureaucrat.

Look, the primary issue of racism that Asian Americans have to deal with is not the same as the racism that African Americans have to deal with, which is that to get what we want we have to work twice as hard. That's not in the same league as worrying about not coming home because of an asshole cop. But we do face similar situations in the "not being served" at private establishments. And having to work twice as hard, or, for African Americans, "having to code switch", or for both our classes, being taken seriously in leadership roles, is not something any legislation is going to correct.

And forgive me for having low trust that this is a problem that government can solve, since quite literally government can't get its own shit straight.

[0] there's a good chance thinking "oh there weren't any extracurriculars, this guy just looked like every other Asian American candidate" but also I performed on stage with the Washington Shakespeare company and directed/produced a full-length play.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#544
post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Live and let live" and "golden rule" are great philosophies to live by. But you still have responsibility when you assist others in doing things, whether you agree or disagree with those things. Otherwise you are ignoring the "let live" part of your own philosophy. For example, someone comes to you asking for your services to help them kill a third person. If you believe in the "let live" part of your philosophy, yo…

You are over-complicating it. Evil people might use my software on GitHub to help kill people. I'm okay with that. I'm not going to try to prevent it; it's impossible. Their blood is not on my hands any more than the blood of Nice France victims is on the truck company's hands.

I think it's obvious that the scope here is "things you are aware of (or could choose to be) and are within your control".

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#545
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civility has already broken down because of the US government’s actions. Schools and other parts of the government are ending their contracts with police. People all over the country and looking hard at their actions and the actions of those companies or other entities they associate with. When the government is acting this badly the social contract gets weaker and begins to fall apart. This is just a reaction to tho…

The U.S. Government does not have police contracts with schools. Police are state, county, or local. The last few weeks have made it clear to me very few people understand our system of gov.

The U.S. Government has had (under the last few Presidents, but not the current one) Consent Decrees to force the police to follow certain ethics guidelines. Obviously, we have always had some problem with police brutality, but at least doing something to reduce it was better than doing nothing while encouraging more of it.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#546
post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are in favor (or in the process) of putting large groups of people who have not directly harmed anyone in concentration camps, separating them from their families, keeping children in cages etc, THEN you are considered a racist authoritarian almost akin to mid 1940's Germany.

My position on immigration has been the same for decades. 1. All persons that are not a danger to others and can prove financial viability (i.e they have a job sponsorship, or other means of self support with out needing social welfare) should be allowed to immigrate on a temporary basis 2. The Immigration process should be limited to only establishment of ID to clear a person from known dangers (i.e medical, crimina…

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#547
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true – businesses are legally allowed to refuse service to anyone (apart from protected classes like race or political affiliation, but that probably does not apply here). It's an important right, and probably many businesses would be more profitable and happy if they exercised that right more often. It's still politically dangerous, and would earn a company a lot of enemies and mistrust (as well as some alli…

In the US at least political affiliation is not usually a protected class.

Seconded. I'm not sure whether the person upthread was earnestly posting that, or surreptitiously doing so as a stalking horse for something else.

Either way: not a protected class, and it should stay that way.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#548
post #14

What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…

> But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a private entity, especially for essentially political reasons, is lunacy. Um, think you've got this backwards. Private entities shouldn't have to take on anyone they don't want as customers (for whatever reason - do you have to justify who you do or don't want in your livingroom?), but publicly-funded institutions shouldn't be able to deny service o…

Well, I don't know. Freedom of speech is also a principle. Public accommodation and non-discrimination are also principled. We don't need laws to see these as a public good. We shouldn't parse these ideas into orthogonal pretzels just because wokeness.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#549
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am strongly against a private business being able to refuse service to a person/organization on political grounds, even when the "victim" may seem to be performing evil actions, as long as it is not breaking any laws. One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination. When you aim that towards your own Government…

By that same logic corporations should be forced to do business with parts of the government doing things completely in contrition to their mission right? A peace advocacy group would be expected to allow contracts with the military or a right wing think tank would have to sell its services to the Peace Corp?

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are going through a very strange and extreme period in US History. Corporations are a huge part of the political landscape. Of course workers who are powerful will demand things of their workplaces. All corporations are political. By accepting the ICE contract previously it was political. Now by reversing they would be changing sides. They were already in the political fray.

The idea that all corporations are political is obviously quite true, especially insofar as potentially-everything is political. What's interesting is erosion of the norm that corporations should not be particularly political (picking and choosing customers based on politics, touting allegiance to one specific side). This was once a somewhat stronger (political) norm that has fallen by the wayside as the nation has g…

> This was once a somewhat stronger (political) norm that has fallen by the wayside as the nation has grown more bitterly divided.

Just a thought: what if the nation's divide comes from companies taking more political stances, instead of the opposite? As an example to entertain the thought, when Nike takes a political position through their advertising on social platforms, people react to it by taking side. If done at a scale big enough, with enough companies pushing their customers to take a side, would that be enough to result in visible divide in the country?

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