How does the HN sorting algorithm work when this goes from top page to the bottom of the second page despite having by far the most points and is also a relatively fresh post?
After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
431–440 of 841 posts
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've avoided the question. Suppose that they'd already been on trial for it, found guilty and served their time. Do you sell them the gun, knowing that they intend to use it for violence? If you showed Home Depot sufficient evidence that you intended to lynch someone with it, and it was Home Depot's policy that we sell rope even if it's used for murder, then yes. I think the issue in your example is that you haven'…
Your examples are extremely contrived. > Suppose that they'd already been on trial for it, found guilty and served their time Ok, so I'm supposing a convicted felon is trying to purchase a gun, which is illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1). > Do you sell them the gun, knowing that they intend to use it for violence? No, I do not sell them the gun, because it would be illegal to do so. === Bottom line, I believe in "in…
Why are you equivocating smoking and lynching?
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
Criminals are also a minority group that are concentrated into prisons. Is that wrong too?
Criminals are not a "minority group". Due process is the method that a society uses to determine whether people should be punished. The concentration camps under discussion do not hold people who have been adjudicated and condemned; they hold people who have been accused.
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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#434Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is no way a retail business would be established to service the needs of 2% of the population Slow down there, you're going to need more evidence than that to claim that an underserved segment of the population isn't an attractive commercial target. I agree that wheelchair users might be comparatively expensive customers, but if that 2% stat is correct they would be profitable to someone. A business with 2% o…
Based loosely on 1.2 million wheelchair users in the UK for a population of 50 million it's in the right ballpark. Honestly, I think the claim that the free market would solve this is so outlandish that the burden of proof is on those who believe it. Maybe, just maybe, in a dense population centre like London their needs would be met by a few specialist 'accessable' stores. But what about some rural town of a few tho…
In my area most grocery stores support delivery, sometimes even free, or curbside pickup.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#435Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean this in the nicest possible way; have you ever faced discrimination based on the colour of your skin, gender, sexual orientation, disabilities or anything else which is protected by law in most civilised countries? If, like a significant portion of the HN audience, you are straight, white, middle class and male it's probably easier for you to dismiss the right to fair treatment than it might be for individuals…
I have. And you know what, civil rights laws did jack all to protect me. I'm much happier knowing that the people that operate that business were racist jerks (instead of, say, them being forced to serve me and spit in my food, which would be a health concern), and I have dissuaded probably on the order of a hundred people from going to that place, and that was in the era before social media.
Why didn't that strategy work for black people in the 1960s? Or LGBT more recently?
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#436Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm pretty sure that's it's criminal in every country on earth to violate the immigration laws of that country
And if the laws of your country are unjust?
Get a majority to vote in politicians to change them. If your goal is open borders then you will probably have a tough time.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#437What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…
> What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. They have a problem with their employer, and are being heard in the court of public opinion. Why is that "a bummer"? I don't have a particular opinion on whether or not what they are doing is an effective way to accomplish their aims. But workers speaking out for any reason, ranging from unethical wage suppressio…
> They have a problem with their employer, and are being heard in the court of public opinion. Why is that "a bummer"?
The court of public opinion doesn't have a good track record, for one. It's decisions are often based on fashion more than any kind of ethical principles.
A classic exploration of this phenomenon is contained in the novel The Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#438Earlier quoted context omitted.
My problem with this argument is that it (if applied uniformly) means that you couldn't hold IBM culpable for their role in the Holocaust. After all, "all they did" was help create a computerised census system for the democratically elected German government[1]. In reality, their computerisation of the census allowed the Nazis to far more efficiently catalogue and track Jewish people throughout the Third Reich. And b…
Calling ICE nazis is idiotic.
Not too long ago the company where I worked was having a similar debate concerning services provided (through an intermediary) to ICE.
One particular facet in the discussion that stuck with me more than the rest was a comment by a co-worker who was visiting from the Berlin office.
They talked briefly about small monuments on the street by their home marking the spots where people were arrested and taken to concentration camps as their time and place of death. They pointed out that in many cases those dates are in the mid 1930s. Up to 10 years before the discovery and liberation of the death camps.
Calling ICE nazis (while still hopefully hyperbole) is not necessarily an unfounded comparison.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your examples are extremely contrived. > Suppose that they'd already been on trial for it, found guilty and served their time Ok, so I'm supposing a convicted felon is trying to purchase a gun, which is illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1). > Do you sell them the gun, knowing that they intend to use it for violence? No, I do not sell them the gun, because it would be illegal to do so. === Bottom line, I believe in "in…
Why are you equivocating smoking and lynching?
I'm not, I'm just generalizing the stance to whether people have a responsibility of "preventing future crimes" when considering whether to offer services to clientele.
Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've avoided the question. Suppose that they'd already been on trial for it, found guilty and served their time. Do you sell them the gun, knowing that they intend to use it for violence? If you showed Home Depot sufficient evidence that you intended to lynch someone with it, and it was Home Depot's policy that we sell rope even if it's used for murder, then yes. I think the issue in your example is that you haven'…
Your examples are extremely contrived. > Suppose that they'd already been on trial for it, found guilty and served their time Ok, so I'm supposing a convicted felon is trying to purchase a gun, which is illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(1). > Do you sell them the gun, knowing that they intend to use it for violence? No, I do not sell them the gun, because it would be illegal to do so. === Bottom line, I believe in "in…
Again, you're avoiding the question; it's a moral question, not a legal one. Yes, it's illegal. But that doesn't mean it's unethical.
I'm asking if it's unethical to sell someone a gun if you're convinced they're going to do something you believe to be unethical with it. I would say yes. I'm not sure if you would say, "no, it doesn't matter if I know they're going to kill children with it", "maybe, if I only think they're going to kill animals with it", or "yes, I don't think I should sell them the gun if I know they're going to do something I don't approve of with it".
To your second point, we're not talking about "maybe they're going to do something bad", we're saying "here's plenty of documentation that they're going to do something bad".