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Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

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Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#161

Post by kiliancs »

rossdavidh wrote: post #77

"Three months into the pandemic, the argument about the moral and economic superiority of the modern office is over. Remote work works." So, I have worked (mostly) remotely for years, and I don't think I agree with this. It works for some people, in some situations. There are absolutely times when you need to be in the office with other people, and even if my client is in another town I have to drive over there to ta…

It's hard to disagree that "it depends", but it's also hard to disagree that "remote work", generally, "works", and that it does so in contradiction with the assumptions and skepticism towards it that were much more established before the pandemic.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#162

Post by cercatrova »

heliodor wrote: post #58
agd wrote: post #13

This is quite an innovative approach to email, and they describe the features here: https://hey.com/features/ - screening by default - removes email tracking pixels - streamlined reply/read flows - improved attachment handling - doesn't interrupt you by default There's also a video tour of the product from the CEO here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=296&v=UCeYTysLyG... For me as a gmail user I'm keen to…

A lot of the features advertised by HEY have been sorely missing from Gmail for a long time. I wouldn't exactly call them innovative. Gmail will have an easy time implementing these features, now that someone is kicking them out of their decade-long slumber. Plenty of people will be happy to pay for a quality and not-Google email service. Glad to see they have the resources and willpower to do this!

Gmail won't implement most of these features, due to the classic innovator's dilemma. Too many people use and expect Gmail to work like a regular email app, chronological stack of emails with read and unread, so even though these features may help the more productive users, Gmail can't alienate most of its other users.

What they could do is create another email app, which they did called Inbox, but then they killed it and most of its features, which were similar to Hey's, haven't been incorporated, precisely due to the reasons above.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#164

Post by paulpan »

troughway wrote: post #4

$99/yr for email is steep, but I understand that most people don't want to bother setting this stuff up and have no qualms paying for it, especially at a price point that is only slightly above G Suite.

Agreed, $99/year may seem reasonable for all the features and principles but for most users on Gmail and Outlook, it's a steep entry fee. Probably intentional for initial launch so that mostly power users try it out.

I think a different approach would've made it $49/year and have additional features as add-ons. That way users can opt in and only pay for things that they want. Also gives the dev team signals on what features are most desired.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#165

Post by 1123581321 »

andolanra wrote: post #157
1123581321 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved Inbox, but what actually happened there was that there were two visions of Gmail 2.0 internally. Inbox didn’t win, partly because it was written in a nightmarish C++ framework, but some of its best features were brought into Gmail. Gmail is a conservatively managed product, but it does improve over time.

Nobody I know who used Inbox feels that the current Gmail interface—even with some Inbox features backported—is an acceptable substitute for Inbox.

Now you know one. :)

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#166

Post by juliozaravia »

1123581321 wrote: post #130
svachalek wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google had an innovative email platform called Inbox that was widely loved by its users and they killed it two years ago. If the market is not billions of people they just don't care about it.

I loved Inbox, but what actually happened there was that there were two visions of Gmail 2.0 internally. Inbox didn’t win, partly because it was written in a nightmarish C++ framework, but some of its best features were brought into Gmail. Gmail is a conservatively managed product, but it does improve over time.

I'm intrigued. How could the framework of a certain programming language affect the product, in this case Inbox?

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#168

Post by aSplash0fDerp »

msh wrote: post #156
aSplash0fDerp wrote: post #102

Possibly OT, but dropping email and going exclusively with dialtone/messaging for communications would be a breath of fresh air vs cat-n-mousing around the global spam issue (being under 24/7 attack/abuse is absurd). It may take reengineering some models/processes, but good business only requires good communications (simplicity is the ultimate sophistication). One-size-fits-all (email in this case) is rarely a soluti…

How do you handle things like ordering things online that usually requires a email address?

By not using an email address (dialtone is a medium unto itself, just as much as snailmail, in-person, messaging and video links are and would require different security protocols).

I grew up reading Nerd Vittles (lurker shoutout to Ward) and think dialtone is sexy, but the digital version of "don't call me, I'll call you" will most likely not include email (or inbound messaging).

{Sidenote: I also worked in deploying cable broadband around Y2K and taking a small percentage of the phone companies business was a big chunk at the time. The dialtone wars will not stop at LTE, but should find a new avenue with SAT dialtone. Its going to be another big chunk (no citation).}

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#169

Post by fmisle »

noncoml wrote: post #142

I am fully behind something like this, and more than happy to pay for an email service that will stop all the "new-age spam". But! "Want an invite? To get a code, email iwant@hey.com and tell us how you feel" Seriously? A Gmail trick? By playing this trick, you just destroyed all your credibility.

They will go invite-free next month

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#170

Post by 1123581321 »

juliozaravia wrote: post #166
1123581321 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loved Inbox, but what actually happened there was that there were two visions of Gmail 2.0 internally. Inbox didn’t win, partly because it was written in a nightmarish C++ framework, but some of its best features were brought into Gmail. Gmail is a conservatively managed product, but it does improve over time.

I'm intrigued. How could the framework of a certain programming language affect the product, in this case Inbox?

My understanding is that development of Inbox slowed and became unpleasant because the C++ generated JS was unattractive to developers at Google, and it didn’t have the internal support for a rewrite. Since the Gmail product was the incumbent, has more developers and is probably refactored often enough to maintain a certain code quality level, and several Inbox features were compatible with Gmail, the Inbox product had no leverage to get itself enough support to stay alive.
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