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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

latimes.com

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#381

Post by gruez »

nahtnam wrote: post #65
jobeirne wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a private entity, especially for essentially political reasons, is lunacy. Um, think you've got this backwards. Private entities shouldn't have to take on anyone they don't want as customers (for whatever reason - do you have to justify who you do or don't want in your livingroom?), but publicly-funded institutions shouldn't be able to deny service o…

What about anti-discrimnation laws? Where do you stand on the issue with the baker refusing to bake a cake for the gay couple?

Simple: anti-discrimination laws only apply if you're being discriminated on the basis of being in a protected class. being gay is a protected class. Being ICE isn't.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#382

Post by archagon »

mc32 wrote: post #347
49531 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a better way to look at it is that workers should be able to protest working on a machine they find morally wrong. The world might be a better place if people directing resources were required to stop and think "Are the workers going to willingly do this?" before making decisions.

What if developers find it morally wrong to automate away jobs? Do they get a say? Is it within their moral rights for backhoe operators demand manual ditch digging too because that will benefit their friends who lost jobs to powered equipment?

To some extent, yes. The economy exists for the benefit of humanity and not the other way around.

The question is: does the automation help us build things that were impossible before, or does it exist for the sole purpose of cutting jobs and funneling more money to the executives?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#383

Post by joshuamorton »

Fellshard wrote: post #182
joshuamorton wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot's of people seem to think so. Masterpiece Cake shop was a supreme court decision around, essentially, that question, that upheld the right for the private entity to discriminate. So yes I think everyone would agree you have some responsibility (otherwise no one would care about the outcome of the case, why request the right to discriminate if you don't feel that you have any responsibility for the resulting acts?…

It was more specific than that: a cake shop participates directly in the creative effort with the client in the way a software service provider does not.

Software service providers certainly do implement features requested directly by clients.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#384

Post by matwood »

rattray wrote: post #14

What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…

You touch on an interesting point on the continuing amassing of power around corporations. ICE was created by people who were voted on by the populace. A corporation refusing to work with a legal entity really shows just how much power corporations now have.

Github refuses to work with ICE today and hypothetically tomorrow will only host code for Democrats? I'm certainly no fan of ICE, but I'm also not sure I like ceding even more control to corporations. Perhaps I'm naive in thinking we can still fix the US through voting.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#385

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

sequoia wrote: post #271

My question is not so much about ICE, who I personally feel would be reasonable to refuse to do business with in the current circumstance (caveat: I'm not an expert here and could be wrong). My question is about next "unethical" organization that GitHub has a contract with, and the next and the next after that. Do employees have veto power on revenue-generating contracts, generally? Or is ICE an exceptional case? Sho…

Slippery slope is a logical “fallacy”, just like ad hominems or mistaking correlation with causation, to name two examples that, for reasons escaping me, are pointed out incessantly on HN while the former rarely is.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#386

Post by TedShiller »

TedShiller wrote: post #208

I'm part Native American, and while I support BLM, Native Americans are facing the exact same tragic societal problems and discrimination as black people. If GitHub supports BLM they should also support Native American Lives Matter.

I wish people didn't downvote this. I've spent time in the South Dakota Reservations, and if you've seen those, you would know what I'm talking about.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#387

Post by [deleted] »

joosters wrote: post #336
toomuchtodo wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe I’ve got it backwards. If Github/Microsoft won’t serve ICE, someone else will. If you want to fix ICE, the political process is what fixes that, not feel good efforts on a single business. As someone with entities that are registered to do business with the federal government, I’d provide services to ICE, because ICE isn’t the problem: how they’re regulated is the problem. Not providing services to IC…

"If I don't mug this person wandering lost & alone at night, someone else will." - 'someone else will' is not a very good argument or justification for your actions.

[deleted]

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#389

Post by enobrev »

nordsieck wrote: post #109
enobrev wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about hand-washing?

> What about hand-washing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_reaction_to_Ignaz...

Thank you.

I was worried it was going to be like the salmonella thing where it turned out washing a chicken* is terrible advice because it spreads it everywhere and so it turns out that every time I wash my hands after handling deliveries, I'm now covering my kitchen with Covid sauce. I'm very happy that's not the case.

* I've never washed a chicken, but I've definitely seen and heard the advice before.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#390

Post by deogeo »

gruez wrote: post #372
brabel wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am strongly against a private business being able to refuse service to a person/organization on political grounds, even when the "victim" may seem to be performing evil actions, as long as it is not breaking any laws. One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination. When you aim that towards your own Government…

>One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination It looks like you're trying to imply that discriminating based on political orientation is as bad as as discriminating based on race, gender, origin or religion, but that's wrong. At least when it comes to the law, political orientation isn't a protected class. Rac…

You're correct regarding the law, but I wouldn't be so quick to claim it's not as bad. Suppose a business refused to serve union activists? Environmentalists? Feminists? Suppose many large businesses did so?
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