Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25% • Hacker News Board

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#41

Post by jabirali » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

rekado wrote: post #31

dilandau wrote: post #24

Is anybody using this? What do you like about it versus a more typical linux or unix? Is hardware support good enough to run on a relatively recent laptop?

I'm using Guix System on new Dell servers, old Sun servers, a Dell laptop, a Purism Librem laptop, an old Thinkpad --- it works just fine. I think the fear of missing drivers when using Linux without blobs is extremely overstated. Yes, certain WiFi cards won't work without blobs, and yes, the 3D graphics situation is not great thanks to NVIDIA and AMD. > What do you like about it versus a more typical linux or unix?…

> 3D graphics situation is not great thanks to NVIDIA and AMD.

AMD is now one of the good guys when it comes to open source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMDGPU

Basically, since 2015, AMD has offered an official driver under an MIT license for Linux and *BSD. Personally, I'm definitely choosing AMD for my next laptop :).

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#42

Post by eeh » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #35

paroneayea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's intended as that slang... I think it's probably in the scheme tradition of self-deprecating conspiratorial names... I suspect it's meant to invoke that theme. Not to mention that "bash" sounds like a concussive injury; "gash" sounds like a slicing injury. So follows that theme also. I would be very surprised if genitalia slang came up in the author's mind as a choice of names but I guess I don't kn…

I'm amazed how it can be possible not understand that what came up in the author's mind is not the issue at all, and irrelevant. According to your reasoning, I can name an alarm program "cock", just as long as what was going through my mind at the time was a rooster crowing in the morning. ("Get woken up by cock!") What anyone else chooses to read into it is their problem?

Is the author of the project a fluent speaker of English?

Not everyone will be familiar with slangs in various countries.

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#43

Post by rekado » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

mason55 wrote: post #17

LockAndLol wrote: post #3

I see that guix is a declarative package manager like nix. Where does it have a leg up over nix? And how's the GUI integration with KDE and gnome? Is there a backend for KDE Discover or the Gnome Software Center? Finally, I see that installation goes over a "curl | bash", which imo is a pretty insecure method of installation. I can understand why such an insecure method exists (so many different ways of installing so…

I am a basic Nix user so I can't speak to much, but my understanding is that one of the major difference is Guix uses Scheme (or a Scheme-like language) for config so it's more familiar. Nix uses their own language, also called Nix. On the other hand I believe the package repo for Nix is much more comprehensive and kept more up to date.

> On the other hand I believe the package repo for Nix is much more comprehensive and kept more up to date.

What makes you say so?

(disclaimer: I'm a contributor to Guix and just upgraded several hundred R packages.)

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#44

Post by qqii » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

artistsvoid wrote: post #19

qqii wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In GNU fashion they're using savannah mailing lists and email patches so to those who are comfortable with git{hub,lab} it's slightly less familiar. Here is their git repository: https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/guix Here is the web interface to their issues and patches mailing list: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/ As you can see although the project is less popular, it is no less actively developed and you can easily…

I fear it being 'GNU' they will shoot themselves in the foot somehow. Bad marketing, unnecessarily geeky and childish nomenclature, GPLv3 and make it all free software, no proprietary drivers, hard to get proprietary third party software to install et cetera... 'GNU Guix is a transactional package manager and an advanced distribution of the GNU system that respects user freedom.'[0] NixOS is developed using the MIT l…

I guess it depends on what you mean by shoot themselves in the foot. There are major differences in philosophy and bar the "superficial" differences these are quite different projects.

For one nix simply doesn't have a project focused on bootstrapping. As another example compare rust bootstrapping[0] versus using a rust binary[1]. Nix also has no alternative to guix challenge[2] or guix pack[3]. Even a comparison of their documentation shows this difference.

The question is if you consider these measures useful, and if you think bootstrapping is even an issue in the first place. To me this is the bigger question when comparing the two projects, as depending on your philosophy guix is either taking necessary precautions or unnecessary mitigations.

Given posts like this their marketing is okay, I haven't seen much unnecessary childishness - but both projects are fundimentally complicated thus have to invent words for concepts and there's nonguix[4] and most people run nix on GuixSD for their non free software needs.

I doubt guix will be more popular than nix anytime soon, but I don't think NixOS will be more popular than Arch anytime soon either.

[0]: https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2018/bootstrapping-rust/

[1]: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/85542

[2]: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-chall...

[3]: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-pack....

[4]: https://gitlab.com/nonguix/nonguix

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#45

Post by sterlind » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #35

paroneayea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's intended as that slang... I think it's probably in the scheme tradition of self-deprecating conspiratorial names... I suspect it's meant to invoke that theme. Not to mention that "bash" sounds like a concussive injury; "gash" sounds like a slicing injury. So follows that theme also. I would be very surprised if genitalia slang came up in the author's mind as a choice of names but I guess I don't kn…

I'm amazed how it can be possible not understand that what came up in the author's mind is not the issue at all, and irrelevant. According to your reasoning, I can name an alarm program "cock", just as long as what was going through my mind at the time was a rooster crowing in the morning. ("Get woken up by cock!") What anyone else chooses to read into it is their problem?

Well, there is Coq, the interactive theorem prover. I quite like the name (and the logo, which is a rooster.)

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#46

Post by bitwize » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

paroneayea wrote: post #29

blahbhthrow3748 wrote: post #6

This is extremely neat but the name "gash" is... a poor choice. Gory in standard English, worse as a slang term

I don't think it's intended as that slang... I think it's probably in the scheme tradition of self-deprecating conspiratorial names... I suspect it's meant to invoke that theme. Not to mention that "bash" sounds like a concussive injury; "gash" sounds like a slicing injury. So follows that theme also. I would be very surprised if genitalia slang came up in the author's mind as a choice of names but I guess I don't kn…

Stallman's fanbase can call themselves the Bash Gash Terror Crew.

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#47

Post by gmanley » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #35

paroneayea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's intended as that slang... I think it's probably in the scheme tradition of self-deprecating conspiratorial names... I suspect it's meant to invoke that theme. Not to mention that "bash" sounds like a concussive injury; "gash" sounds like a slicing injury. So follows that theme also. I would be very surprised if genitalia slang came up in the author's mind as a choice of names but I guess I don't kn…

I'm amazed how it can be possible not understand that what came up in the author's mind is not the issue at all, and irrelevant. According to your reasoning, I can name an alarm program "cock", just as long as what was going through my mind at the time was a rooster crowing in the morning. ("Get woken up by cock!") What anyone else chooses to read into it is their problem?

"cock" is not a very good example. Gash, as slang, is nowhere near as often used as "cock". Gash's meaning as "a long, deep cut" is, by far, the most used meaning. Whereas "cock", nowadays, the slang term is pretty much the only used meaning. Peach, rod, purse, knob, sheath, pocket, meat, etc. All these words have alternate slang meanings as well. Should we stop using their original meanings? Like I said in another comment, language is all about context. I've only ever heard 'gash' used as slang in the U.K. I would imagine a very large chunk of the English speaking population only know the non-slang meaning.

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#48

Post by davexunit » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

jabirali wrote: post #41

rekado wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using Guix System on new Dell servers, old Sun servers, a Dell laptop, a Purism Librem laptop, an old Thinkpad --- it works just fine. I think the fear of missing drivers when using Linux without blobs is extremely overstated. Yes, certain WiFi cards won't work without blobs, and yes, the 3D graphics situation is not great thanks to NVIDIA and AMD. > What do you like about it versus a more typical linux or unix?…

> 3D graphics situation is not great thanks to NVIDIA and AMD. AMD is now one of the good guys when it comes to open source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMDGPU Basically, since 2015, AMD has offered an official driver under an MIT license for Linux and *BSD. Personally, I'm definitely choosing AMD for my next laptop :).

Unless things have changed recently, AMD GPUs still require proprietary firmware and thus do not work on a fully free system. I bought an AMD GPU a few years ago to try it out and it didn't work.

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#49

Post by janneke » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

dilandau wrote: post #24

Is anybody using this? What do you like about it versus a more typical linux or unix? Is hardware support good enough to run on a relatively recent laptop?

I have been using GNU Guix for over 4 years now on a modern Dell laptop (exchanged the WIFI card to keep my freedom), two older thinkpads, home server.

Since three years our development team at work uses Guix; the reproducible offload builds are awesome. Extending the package graph with your own version of packages is very helpful. Since about a year we also use server(s) at Digital Ocean running GNU Guix.

Re: Guix Further Reduces Bootstrap Seed to 25%

#50

Post by zelphirkalt » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

dilandau wrote: post #24

Is anybody using this? What do you like about it versus a more typical linux or unix? Is hardware support good enough to run on a relatively recent laptop?

I am mostly using GUIX package manager as a package manager on multiple foreign distros. It makes it very easy to get up to date versions of free software, when the repositories of your distro lack behind.

I've also experimented recently with using it for creating environments (actually called profiles in GUIX) for programming projects. That also works.

There is a lot more to discover for me, once I get around to it.