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Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

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Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#71
post #52

The pricing is more than steep. For that amount I can also buy an office 365 subscription which doesn't sell my data, and gives me access to all the desktop tools. I mean I'm willing to spend for this for a private mail address with a new way of working (I could even live without imap), but I can't justify these costs.

>which doesn't sell my data

I read this as you're implying that Hey is going to sell your data. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The Hey marketing pages explicitly say that your messages are encrypted and your data is never sold.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#72
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same thing, because by paying for it you have a binding contract and can switch providers too. If you don't pay for it, then you don't have a claim on that email address, as the terms of use can change at a moment's notice. If paying for it is a problem, then pay it in advance for 10 years and setup automatic renewal. Also leave a digital will. You probably want to do that anyway.

How is that not the same thing as paying for an email account with fastmail?

In terms of the binding agreement, it isn't any different, except you can can move to different providers whereas if you don't own that domain, the service provider has you by the balls.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#73
Anyone remembers the app called Mailbox that was acquihired by Dropbox and killed?

God, it was so intuitive, smooth, and simple, with features I _still_ can’t find in 2020 (like reordering the emails in the inbox). I would easily pay 200 USD a year to use that one.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#74
post #9

I’m disappointed in Hey so far. It’s a closed system (no IMAP). They are charging a premium price for it over Fastmail or Google Gsuite. There is no calendar. No ability to import old emails into it. Seems like they could have just released a mail app sitting on top of Fastmail and had more/better features from day one.

I don't get how they can complain about Google stifling innovation in an open system since 2004 and then close off their counter-offering by not offering IMAP. I'm gonna stick with running my own mail server to get around Gmail. It's $5 a month, has a calendar, I can use any mail app I want to, I could import old emails if I cared to. I'm also sure I could get the "tracking pixel name-n-shame" feature they're so exci…

The feature set would be extremely difficult to clone via IMAP + SMTP without being confusing. One of the major features is that you can change the subject that is displayed on an incoming email, and that it won't be changed when you respond (so if someone sent you an email with "no subject" as the subject, you can change it to "foo bar foo". They will still see "no subject" when you reply, and conversations won't be broken in Outlook). That'd be very hard to clone in an arbitrary email client that didn't know how to fix it. Another one is that every unique sender gets put into a screening folder until you tell hey where to put it (inbox/paper trail/feed), and that functionality can't be cloned in a email client (because they don't know how to force you to answer that question).

Even if they found a way to make it work now, every time they had a new feature they wanted to add to their web client, they'd have to worry about making it not break Outlook/Thunderbird/$RandomEmacsMailClient, because if it does people are going to miss emails and leave the service. And since their target market is people who hate the way email works today anyway, the target market probably won't ever want to touch IMAP again if they can help it. If they want to go back, all their mail can be exported and new mail will be forwarded to their next address. It seems fine to me.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#75
post #71
post #52

The pricing is more than steep. For that amount I can also buy an office 365 subscription which doesn't sell my data, and gives me access to all the desktop tools. I mean I'm willing to spend for this for a private mail address with a new way of working (I could even live without imap), but I can't justify these costs.

>which doesn't sell my data I read this as you're implying that Hey is going to sell your data. Correct me if I'm wrong. The Hey marketing pages explicitly say that your messages are encrypted and your data is never sold.

No, you should read it as “also doesn’t sell my data”. The point is that office 365 offers a lot more value than hey for the same price.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#76

I switched to https://mailinabox.email a while back and really loving it. You rely on using a mail client rather than a webapp, but I’ve enjoyed having the control.

I thought MIAB provided a web client as well?

It does, that's the only way I've used it. It's no Gmail but it's tolerable.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#77
"Three months into the pandemic, the argument about the moral and economic superiority of the modern office is over. Remote work works."

So, I have worked (mostly) remotely for years, and I don't think I agree with this. It works for some people, in some situations. There are absolutely times when you need to be in the office with other people, and even if my client is in another town I have to drive over there to talk to people in person.

This from a person who works one of the most remote-friendly jobs (computer programmer), who is obviously not opposed to the idea because I do it myself most of the time. But I think what a lot of people discovered is that working remotely _doesn't_ work.

It probably also works worse over time, as the personal contacts made in person, fray after a longer and longer period without in-office conversations. I would not be surprised if some companies, currently paying sky-high salaries for employees in very high cost of living areas, find it attractive to enable more remote work. If and where it works, great. But the idea that everyone will do it in the future, is just fantasy.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#78
post #52

The pricing is more than steep. For that amount I can also buy an office 365 subscription which doesn't sell my data, and gives me access to all the desktop tools. I mean I'm willing to spend for this for a private mail address with a new way of working (I could even live without imap), but I can't justify these costs.

Yeah, 99$ seems like to much for me. I currently pay ~24€ for secure private email hosting in the EU. Not so many fancy features, but it does include a entire gsuite clone

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#79
post #52

The pricing is more than steep. For that amount I can also buy an office 365 subscription which doesn't sell my data, and gives me access to all the desktop tools. I mean I'm willing to spend for this for a private mail address with a new way of working (I could even live without imap), but I can't justify these costs.

> which doesn't sell my data

For now (also, are you sure?).

With HEY I can trust my data won't be sold as long as DHH or Jason are alive (and maybe after that). I can't be sure Microsoft or any other company won't change their TOS even this afternoon. In fact, I can be sure they will eventually if it fits them.

Re: Basecamp’s founders are trying to start an email rebellion

#80

Anyone remembers the app called Mailbox that was acquihired by Dropbox and killed? God, it was so intuitive, smooth, and simple, with features I _still_ can’t find in 2020 (like reordering the emails in the inbox). I would easily pay 200 USD a year to use that one.

Mailbox and Sunrise being acquired are some of the saddest losses over the last few years. Both superior products, that would remain extremely competitive today.

I'm extremely bitter about Sunrise in particular, because both Google and Apple have such mediocre calendar platforms.

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