George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#661

Post by agensaequivocum » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:20 PM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #513

SamuelAdams wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why any footage of an incident used in court must include the entire interaction. Police body cam footage can be rejected as evidence if it does not start with the officer stepping out of his vehicle. This is why so many iPhone recordings from bystanders gets thrown out in trial. Are there instances where police abuse their power? Yes. Absolutely. But it doesn't help anyone when people are cherry picking inst…

Handcuffing a lifeless freshly shot body is more than enough. I’ve seen it over and over. Why is that a policy? Second, why shoot to kill and not to incapacitate? Shoot to kill is a policy. Why is that a policy? The police rule by fear. I’ve never broken the law and yet Im really affraid of cops in the US. I know I should not have a reason to but can’t help but be intimidated by their tactics, their orders, their dem…

> Second, why shoot to kill and not to incapacitate? Shoot to kill is a policy. Why is that a policy?

Because there is no place to shoot that will simply incapacitate everyone. The policy is generally shoot to stop the threat not to kill per se. There are many instances where a person will take many rounds in potentially fatal spots and continue like nothing has happened.

> In this free-for-all, the assailant had, in fact, been struck 14 times. Any one of six of these wounds – in the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney – could have produced fatal consequences, “in time,” Gramins emphasizes.[1]

[1] https://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/why-one...

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#662

Post by screye » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:20 PM UTC

supportlocal4h wrote: post #522

When one 737 Max crashed, some pointed the finger at the pilots. When a second one crashed, the focus quickly shifted. It is a common attitude in aviation that even pilot error is really a systems fault. Perhaps opposing buttons are too close together, or some control requires attention to be diverted at the wrong time, or pilots are allowed to fly too many hours without adequate rest, or plenty of other things that…

The natural follow up to your analogy shows exactly why these protests targeted at police might be a good solution.

A new system, like the design of a whole new plane requires a lot of political will, funding and time. On the other hand, the solution people are more likely to get is minor adjustments to the design of the plane or system to make it compliant, so the 737 Max can fly again, in some capacity.

Changing the demographic of the police forces to eradicate the choke hold of trigger happy white supremacists on it, will take decades. On the other hand, laws for police accountability and monitoring can be enacted faster, and help put the police system back into place in a format that is a bit more functional.

It doesn't solve the core problem. But, it's a start. It makes it so that fewer people will face police brutality for the next few decades, while longer term efforts to reform law enforcement can take hold in the US.

> The solution to police brutality requires much more thought.

a 100%. It goes deep into the American conception of good and bad, punishment and rehabilitation.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#663

Post by monocasa » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:22 PM UTC

screye wrote: post #662

supportlocal4h wrote: post #522

When one 737 Max crashed, some pointed the finger at the pilots. When a second one crashed, the focus quickly shifted. It is a common attitude in aviation that even pilot error is really a systems fault. Perhaps opposing buttons are too close together, or some control requires attention to be diverted at the wrong time, or pilots are allowed to fly too many hours without adequate rest, or plenty of other things that…

The natural follow up to your analogy shows exactly why these protests targeted at police might be a good solution. A new system, like the design of a whole new plane requires a lot of political will, funding and time. On the other hand, the solution people are more likely to get is minor adjustments to the design of the plane or system to make it compliant, so the 737 Max can fly again, in some capacity. Changing th…

> Changing the demographic of the police forces to eradicate the choke hold of trigger happy white supremacists on it, will take decades. On the other hand, laws for police accountability and monitoring can be enacted faster, and help put the police system back into place in a format that is a bit more functional.

There's also the approach that Minneapolis appears to be taking, disbanding their police department. That works pretty much immediately.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#664

Post by AlexTWithBeard » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:23 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #651

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, here we step on a slippery slope of defining a "victimless" crime. Many illegal drugs have a potential of causing harm. Should the harm be purely physical? Homelessness is a public nuisance, which we can choose to ignore, but so is walking naked in a school yard, which will be seen as a much more controversial subject.

tbh, I'm in favor of treating DUI more as a liability thing (ie, automatic fault in the case of an accident and multiplied damages) rather than a crime itself, but that's a pretty controversial position that I didn't want to bring into the debate. plus it has its own issues; liability is not much of a deterrent for someone with minimal assets and/or income.

Making DUI a liability thing is such a simple, clean and straightforward thing to do that I wish it worked.

But: - for it to work people should estimate the risks correctly - most people caught DUIing apparently are quite bad in understanding the risks involved

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#665

Post by unethical_ban » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

whydoyoucare wrote: post #626

markstos wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police unions have considerable influence to block reform even when the elected politicians support it: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapo... The efforts to "defund police" would solve some of the same problems that police currently address through other means. This would weaken the influence of police unions. For example, spending more to treat drug addiction as a disease rather than paying…

Instead of "defund", maybe a better word, then, is "reform", or "reorganize"? Or maybe define that it is "police unions" who should be defunded, not the entire bucket called "police"? I am just curious at this choice of word that seems to be the clarion call, which means entirely different in the dictionary than what is being implied! :-/

Because "Divert police funds" isn't as catchy. Just like "Black Lives Matter" doesn't imply "other lives don't" - when it comes to shorthand political phrases in America, it's best to look at what the common usage is.

(BTW some people actually do want to eliminate the police)

"Defund the police" in the 'mainstream' such as there is one, means to reduce funding for law enforcement and shift that funding to public health, social workers, and community programs, in a way that reduces the scope of calls police will get, and reduce the number of calls police are required to respond to.

Police Unions are not publicly funded, so defunding them doesn't make sense. Renegotiating collective bargaining agreements with unions does. "Smash Police Unions" has a nice ring to it.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#666

Post by Gasp0de » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

I have always wished there was a platform where we could upload such videos and collect evidence on certain cases of police brutality. With the use of facial recognition software, it would also easily be possible to identify when the same cop is involved in multiple conflicts.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#667

Post by hereme888 » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

HN should stay away from this garbage.

Most of these videos are carefully edited to show one side of the story. Others are stories sharing only their side of the story.

Protester brutality far exceeds police brutality. Criminal brutality faaar exceeds police brutality. Yet the extremist leftists are calling to defund the police, which leads to complete chaos and anarchy. Pathetic reasoning from a stone-age, low-IQ perspective.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#668

Post by modo_mario » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #517

kthejoker2 wrote: post #412

If there ever was a case of "don't comment unless you've RTFA" this it: people extrapolating their viewpoint on a list of 700 things from watching 1, 2, 3 ... At a minimum, watch 100 videos. I did last night, only took about an hour, it's easy to find some to nitpick, some which are ambiguous ... and plenty that are totally horrifying. If you can watch 100 videos in a row from Greg Doucette's list and say, "the milit…

This is a clear attempt to manipulate opinion, I don't know why HN leaves it up. You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again. If after watching carefully select and cut videos on a Twitter propaganda account you believe the police has a systemic issue, you're falling for the same trap. It's the same way media manipulate you…

>You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again

Yeah there's no reason to make a fuzz about it. It becomes a bit different when the food and safety inspection routinely comes in and says yeah that's alright, keep going.

Perhaps not at a national level if there's no clear unison there but at least at a local level. Like, for example it doesn't get to me much that Philip Brailsford killed a guy. I've been desensitized much by the internet. The fact that he was rehired to get a lifelong 2500$ a month tho gives a different message about accountability in that area.

Living there would make me look differently at the taxes I pay and make me fearfull and distrustfull of police.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#669

Post by pc86 » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #419

pc86 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "just don't pay them for the time" is not reasonable or realistic, and thinking you can get consensus on what caused a riot is naive under the best of circumstances. On the flip side I'd like to point out that this increased OT often has downstream effects as well, most notably in pensions which are typically based on your last n months of pay. Some contracts include OT in this and some do not. So soon-to-be-…

I think that their continued behavior is putting the pensions at risk, since those depend on continuous taxpayer contributions. It’s not wise to tear gas the people who are going to pay for your retirement.

Based on this comment it's not clear how much experience you have with public sector unions generally or LEO contract negotiations specifically, or how public sector pensions typically work. Barring conviction of a crime (and sometimes even in spite of conviction, depending on the offense), your pension is generally set based on your hire date, and is a percentage of your salary based on the average over some period of time (last 3 years is pretty common). About half the time these pensions are exempt from municipal bankruptcies. It would take legislation to dismantle these pension systems that would almost certainly be litigated and spend years in court, during which time they would still have to be paid out.

They're not putting their financial future at risk.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#670

Post by koheripbal » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

lagadu wrote: post #555

koheripbal wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they allowed a mob to circumvent the legislative/democratic process of monument removal and it's an example of a "good" action? Mobs are not the law.

The alternative would be intervening and things possibly getting violent. The well-being of a statue isn't worth the possibility of causing harm to someone.

I suppose then I could organize a mob to vandalize anything I want because the police should prioritize the well being of the mob over that of property?

Seems like that would embolden mobs to destroy whatever they want. Doesn't seem like an intelligent or sustainable strategy.