Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Osborning the Mac, or not

mondaynote.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 253 posts

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#121

Post by mpweiher »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #109
mpweiher wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's actually way more important this time. How so? All the old legacy apps that nobody wants to (or can) recompile were just jettisoned in the 64 bit transition, as TFA duly noted. "In retrospect, the move to 64-bit software may have been made not just for its own sake, but in contemplation of the ARM transition."

32 bit is going back a lot longer, although my machine which I haven't upgraded to Catalina still has a few 32bit applications kicking around on it including one that I was using in my professional work only 6 months ago. Plenty of 64 bit software exists that isn't being updated often or at all anymore.

I didn't say there was no 64 bit legacy software. I just don't see it as being a "bigger" problem, due to the cutting off of the 32 bit legacy.

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#122

Post by mprev »

mikece wrote: post #116

1. Apple designed chips are already faster per-core than a top-end MacBook Pro. 2. There's no reason dedicated ASIC modules for specialized tasks (like video rendering) can't be connected by Thunderbolt 3 just as external video/compute modules are now. 3. There's no reason a dedicated x86-64 dongle can't be sold for ARM-powered Macs that need to run software that hasn't been ported yet. It would be a spectacular coup…

When it's a laptop, I'm quite the fan of having as much as possible built into the machine as a single unit. That's the point of the form factor, after all.

I think the last thing the MacBooks need are more dongles.

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#123

Post by OldHand2018 »

egypturnash wrote: post #10
egypturnash wrote: post #4

I’m just real glad that my personal upgrade cycle is at the point where I won’t be looking for a new computer until at least the second year of ARM Macs, when most show-stopping bugs should be ironed out of the OS and the Adobe tools I spend most of my work time in. I was an early adopter of PPC and OSX, I’m not gonna sit there trying to get work done via the old-cpu emulation again.

Also: On a desktop machine, there’s no benefit in lower power dissipation and slimmer bodies If you’re in a hot climate then every little bit helps. Lower your power bill due both to lower consumption on the part of your computer and due to the AC coming on that much less. Run the computers fan less. Maybe even have a Mini that does a surprising amount of what you’d buy a Pro for. Make the iMac that much more of a fl…

I read that paragraph and had a completely orthogonal thought. Intel mobile CPUs compare favorably to all established competition (AMD) and the iPad with Magic Keyboard is almost a laptop anyway. Why start with a mobile device?

Intel desktop CPUs are where they have problems and you would assume that this is where Apple has the most frustration with Intel. That's where I'd start.

Also, by keeping ARM and Intel around simultaneously for a few years (both as first-class citizens) forces developers to maintain portable code. If you are using Swift in the manner that they want you to use it, this is already the case. If you're using some other language/approach then you have to either think about adopting Swift or putting in more work.

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#124

Post by lucideer »

mprev wrote: post #122
mikece wrote: post #116

1. Apple designed chips are already faster per-core than a top-end MacBook Pro. 2. There's no reason dedicated ASIC modules for specialized tasks (like video rendering) can't be connected by Thunderbolt 3 just as external video/compute modules are now. 3. There's no reason a dedicated x86-64 dongle can't be sold for ARM-powered Macs that need to run software that hasn't been ported yet. It would be a spectacular coup…

When it's a laptop, I'm quite the fan of having as much as possible built into the machine as a single unit. That's the point of the form factor, after all. I think the last thing the MacBooks need are more dongles.

Dongles for vital functions every user will have an ongoing need for are a problem.

Dongles for legacy functions in the process of deprecation that some users may not want/need seems sensible.

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#125

Post by scarface74 »

Steltek wrote: post #118
scarface74 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even back in 2006, there were at least 7-8 different ways to define a string on Windows depending on which API you were using.

You may have missed GP's point. Microsoft is casts a very wide net, running on a huge array of hardware and trying to do everything from mobile to console gaming to datacenter servers. The dev experience is equally diverse: you don't even need a Windows box to develop for Windows. Apple jettisoned all of that diversity to refine a few precious use cases to earn that "quality" aura. I think this move to ARM is signali…

How is that “wide net” working out?

- Microsoft is a non starter in mobile

- trying to run Windows on low end Surfaces is painful

- Windows is horrible as a touch first interface.

- even with Azure there are more Linux VMs than Windows.

-it takes literally years and multiple failures every time that MS tries to release a new version of Windows.

- They finally through in the towel when it came to IE and was forced to use a competitors engine.

MS is not exactly the shining example of how to successfully pivot as technology changes.

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#126

Post by bitwize »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #61
pier25 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I envy your enthusiasm. Apple has not been quite as attentive regarding the Mac as it used to when those transitions happenned. I do believe ARM Macs will do fine, eventually.

Even for the Mac Pro workstations? I bet Apple Audio and VFX shops will not be happy

Within a year or two, Apple ARM parts will trounce x86-64 performance-wise.

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#127

Post by ChrisLTD »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #123
egypturnash wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: On a desktop machine, there’s no benefit in lower power dissipation and slimmer bodies If you’re in a hot climate then every little bit helps. Lower your power bill due both to lower consumption on the part of your computer and due to the AC coming on that much less. Run the computers fan less. Maybe even have a Mini that does a surprising amount of what you’d buy a Pro for. Make the iMac that much more of a fl…

I read that paragraph and had a completely orthogonal thought. Intel mobile CPUs compare favorably to all established competition (AMD) and the iPad with Magic Keyboard is almost a laptop anyway. Why start with a mobile device? Intel desktop CPUs are where they have problems and you would assume that this is where Apple has the most frustration with Intel. That's where I'd start. Also, by keeping ARM and Intel around…

The thing is, the majority of Macs sold are laptops. It doesn’t make sense for them as a business to build a strategy around what’s best for desktop machines.

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#128

Post by scarface74 »

xnyan wrote: post #115
scarface74 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read Raymond Chen's MS blog about all of the hacks that are in Windows just to keep backwards compatibility with one bad app? Maintaining backwards compatibility forever increases the security vulnerability to footprint, the testing surface for regressions, code size etc. Have you seen how badly Windows runs in low resource environments like the low end Surface line? IE and the collapse of MS's browser marke…

You’re sort of picking the worst example, the alternate is the fact that Windows has maintained a gargantuan desktop OS market share for decades in large part because of their dedication to application compatibility.

Having an overwhelmingly market share in a declining low profit margin business is the definition of a Pyrrhic victory.

No one cares about PCs as a business anymore.

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#129

Post by OldHand2018 »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #127
OldHand2018 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that paragraph and had a completely orthogonal thought. Intel mobile CPUs compare favorably to all established competition (AMD) and the iPad with Magic Keyboard is almost a laptop anyway. Why start with a mobile device? Intel desktop CPUs are where they have problems and you would assume that this is where Apple has the most frustration with Intel. That's where I'd start. Also, by keeping ARM and Intel around…

The thing is, the majority of Macs sold are laptops. It doesn’t make sense for them as a business to build a strategy around what’s best for desktop machines.

Yes, if their plan was to keep both platforms forever it wouldn't make much sense. But if they have a 2-3 year transition plan, it might make more sense to start with something for which low sales is still a success.

Re: Osborning the Mac, or not

#130

Post by scarface74 »

slantyyz wrote: post #117
scarface74 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read Raymond Chen's MS blog about all of the hacks that are in Windows just to keep backwards compatibility with one bad app? Maintaining backwards compatibility forever increases the security vulnerability to footprint, the testing surface for regressions, code size etc. Have you seen how badly Windows runs in low resource environments like the low end Surface line? IE and the collapse of MS's browser marke…

I didn't say there were not any tradeoffs made to support those users with legacy systems. What do you define as a low end Surface line on x86? I have a Surface Pro 1 that I still use to this day. I also have a GPD Win handheld that's running an Atom processor that is surprisingly good for what it is. I also have some older Atom based stick PCs that are pretty bad (only 2GB RAM), but those are designed for signage an…

I see you are ignoring the low cost Surface computers that are meant to compete on price with the $329 10.2 inch iPad or even the $499 iPad Air.

The iPads can actually run well with 2GB of RAM. Microsoft Office is a much better experience on an iPad without a keyboard than any hardware that Apple sells.

Post reply on HN