George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#551

Post by hobs » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

downerending wrote: post #514

baddox wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite. The adversarial job should have higher standards of conduct, not lower.

Unfortunately, criminals aren't going to have higher standards of conduct, even if they "should". That's why we call them criminals. And the police have to deal with these people all day long--there's no easy comparison to other jobs.

Peaceful protestors are by definition not criminals. People whose rights are violated by the police? Often not criminals as well!

In fact, you cant really call someone a criminal until they've been convicted of a crime - cue the video of the cops being called by the black store owner, punching him in the face and breaking his jaw while the white thief leaves.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#552

Post by tlear » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #513

SamuelAdams wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why any footage of an incident used in court must include the entire interaction. Police body cam footage can be rejected as evidence if it does not start with the officer stepping out of his vehicle. This is why so many iPhone recordings from bystanders gets thrown out in trial. Are there instances where police abuse their power? Yes. Absolutely. But it doesn't help anyone when people are cherry picking inst…

Handcuffing a lifeless freshly shot body is more than enough. I’ve seen it over and over. Why is that a policy? Second, why shoot to kill and not to incapacitate? Shoot to kill is a policy. Why is that a policy? The police rule by fear. I’ve never broken the law and yet Im really affraid of cops in the US. I know I should not have a reason to but can’t help but be intimidated by their tactics, their orders, their dem…

1. Simple. People go into shock look incapacitated, then come out of it. People get pumped with a dozen rounds and keep fighting.

2. Have you ever shot a gun? Have you ever shot a pistol? Now to simulate the Andrenaline dump run few sprints then try again. You CAN NOT shoot to disable this is not a Hollywood movie, it does not work. Most people can’t hit anything past few meters away with a pistol.

Gun is not a taser or a nightstick. It is a lethal weapon and should only be employed when you have a reason to kill.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#553

Post by AlexTWithBeard » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

cies wrote: post #506

DebtDeflation wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve reached the point where the problem is more than just the equipment, it’s the culture. This is absolutely true, but the problem goes much deeper than just the police force itself. We seem to want to solve every imaginable social problem with police/courts/prisons. Drug abuse needs to be viewed as a public health problem, not a criminal problem. Homelessness as a housing and mental health problem, not a criminal…

Maybe "the right not to be prosecuted for a victimless crime" should be an amendment. Then homelessness/drugs-whatevers/prostitution can no longer have laws against them. "Address the root cause", exactly, and the root cause is the unjust laws. Though cops pretty much never being found guilty for unjust use of violence is a big one too, and I wonder what law changes can solve that issue.

> the right not to be prosecuted for a victimless crime

So if I'm driving drunk, then I'm not prosecuted until there's a victim?

Hm...

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#554

Post by black_puppydog » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #517

kthejoker2 wrote: post #412

If there ever was a case of "don't comment unless you've RTFA" this it: people extrapolating their viewpoint on a list of 700 things from watching 1, 2, 3 ... At a minimum, watch 100 videos. I did last night, only took about an hour, it's easy to find some to nitpick, some which are ambiguous ... and plenty that are totally horrifying. If you can watch 100 videos in a row from Greg Doucette's list and say, "the milit…

This is a clear attempt to manipulate opinion, I don't know why HN leaves it up. You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again. If after watching carefully select and cut videos on a Twitter propaganda account you believe the police has a systemic issue, you're falling for the same trap. It's the same way media manipulate you…

As is any opinion piece ever written and cherished by the HN community. And many "just reporting the facts" articles.

At least this one comes clearly labelled and backed by some evidence.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#555

Post by lagadu » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #443

fnord123 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one UK example which is actually a counter example where the police allowed a statue to be destroyed instead of intervening and creating a potentially dangerous altercation.

So they allowed a mob to circumvent the legislative/democratic process of monument removal and it's an example of a "good" action? Mobs are not the law.

The alternative would be intervening and things possibly getting violent. The well-being of a statue isn't worth the possibility of causing harm to someone.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#556

Post by lazyjones » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

TeaDrunk wrote: post #507

lazyjones wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a black man you are more likely to be killed by a cop than it is likely a cop dies in the line of duty Same goes for criminals. And this is the mistake in your argumentation. Around 2.2% of black men were imprisoned in 2018 in the US ( https://www.statista.com/statistics/252871/imprisonment-rate... ). It's not per se outrageous that 5% or so of criminals die in the hands of the police, in a country with major so…

Was Tamir Rice a criminal?

No, but he was shot because of the fake gun and not because he was black.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-86-carrying-fake-or-toy-...

> 43 people shot while carrying fake guns in 2016, as well as the same number in 2015, are based on data compiled by the paper as part of its national database of fatal police-involved shootings. Four of those killed were under the age of 17, and seven were over the age of 55. Of those killed, all but five were men, 54 were white, 19 were black and 11 were Hispanic.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#557

Post by hef19898 » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

pnako wrote: post #396

torb-xyz wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's tempting to do the whole ”oh that's a problem over in terrible USA” (a very common european way of thinking) but I'd be careful about it. Granted I think european police is less violent than US (a low bar), but to say that we don't have a problem with this at all is pretty naive. Just look at how french or swedish police have responded to black lives matters protests for example.

Right now the French police is protesting against their own boss (minister of the interior, Castaner) because he went with the BLM narrative and basically called them racist. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53022073

Back during Sarkozy'sreign as President,there were riotscaused by the death of a coupe of youth being persued by police. So yeah, they have a problem in France. One that should be addressed.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#558

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

meheleventyone wrote: post #532

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's impossible to tell, from just a video of a crowd being pushed down the street, whether or not there's a good reason they need to be moved.

Then one shouldn't leap to conclusions in either direction until more context can be found. Like for example the ample less ambiguous evidence.

Agreed, but I think this makes a very strong case against long lists of videos that look bad as a form of argument.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#559

Post by black_puppydog » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

lvs wrote: post #539

lazyjones wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a clear attempt to manipulate opinion, I don't know why HN leaves it up. You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again. If after watching carefully select and cut videos on a Twitter propaganda account you believe the police has a systemic issue, you're falling for the same trap. It's the same way media manipulate you…

I don't think society is looking for police to be an average good. That is, we're not looking to optimize on the statistical mean of police interactions. We are concerned particularly about the tails. The outliers are the problem, particularly when they're not as uncommon as we expect them to be. You may call them propaganda, but that's a strange thing to post on an enumerated list of recorded evidence.

I agree, but also, calling them "outliers" is exactly the foregone conclusion that people in the streets are questioning.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#560

Post by mindslight » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #385

sneak wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, the civil rights suits later brought against them get paid by taxpayers , not the offending officers. Their abuse is literally publicly subsidized. Lawsuit settlements for the police committing human rights abuses should come out of the police pension fund.

> Lawsuit settlements for the police committing human rights abuses should come out of the police pension fund. No, they should come out of taxpayer funds. The principal is responsible for the actions of their agents. If the public authority doesn't properly screen, train, supervise, and discipline police to protect civil rights, it is their responsibility and the responsibility of the public who chooses that authori…

When driving through other jurisdictions with speed traps etc, I certainly do want to blame those taxpayers for enabling their local gang to be attacking me. But if I take a look at the jurisdictions I am party to, I am powerless. Blaming voters is a fallacy of late-stage Democracy.

The deep seated issue is the principle agent problem around elected officials. The police threaten the politicians, who don't want to rock the boat, to get a lopsided contract that makes them virtually immune to any oversight. This is why we're literally at "defund the police" - citizens are finally crying uncle and demanding that their city's entire contract be thrown away and redesigned.