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Why are there so few black people in STEM?

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Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#171

Post by blackrock »

scarface74 wrote: post #52
CyanLite2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that the first thing people think of when it comes to explaining black behavior is that they must be poor? Not all black people are poor. Stop it with the stereotypes.

It’s not about stereotypes. I am sure that everyone on HN knows that not all Black people are poor. I am Black by the way. But, we also have to look at statistics and think longitudinally instead of anecdotally. I came from a middle class family in a small town in the south. But my mom being a well connected high school math teacher did give me some advantages. When I graduated from college, I had a choice between ta…

Nice story. COBOL programmers started making some serious money with Y2K. At least, the contractors started billing advanced hourly rates. And were making more than they ever did.

And from what I’ve been seeing, COBOL just isn’t going anywhere. Those mainframes really are built to last. So he should probably have a job for the rest of his life. I hope he’s got a nice pension.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#172

Post by joyj2nd »

DeonPenny wrote: post #127
joyj2nd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Most companies are actually trying to INCREASE diversity, be it based on skin colour or gender. So it may actually be much EASIER to get accepted in this companies if you are black. I know in some STEM fields (not all in STEM is CS), you have MUCH MUCH higher chances to land a good job at a big company if you are female. But being female in medicine or law buys you nothing since there is no imbalance.

Yeh you'd think that but if the interviewer doesn't like you doesn't even matter. When I graduated a few years ago I made a spreadsheet to see why. The strongest predictor wasn't how well I think I did out of 10, or hours of prep I did before hand. There were certain people regardless of what I need gave me 100% rejection. I'm not saying it was prejudice, but it was a very clear pattern.

Dude, nobody is worse in getting a job than me. But let me tell you a few things:

1. Mostly it is how much people like you and how much they share with you.

2. 1st class people hire 1st class people, 2nd class people hire 3rd class people

3. Being rejected tells nothing about you. The guy they hired tells a lot about the company.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#173

Post by the_omegist »

tikititaki wrote: post #97
CyanLite2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that the first thing people think of when it comes to explaining black behavior is that they must be poor? Not all black people are poor. Stop it with the stereotypes.

"A close examination of wealth in the U.S. finds evidence of staggering racial disparities. At $171,000, the net worth of a typical white family is nearly ten times greater than that of a Black family ($17,150) in 2016." Source: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/02/27/examining... Of course not all black people are poor, but that's a very poor understanding of statistics. Just because a black man became Pr…

So that means there are less poor people in STEM, no? Poor blacks are a subset of poor people regardless of race.

If the average black family were wealthier than the average white family AND we would keep seeing such difference, it would be interesting to wonder why. But there is nothing new in poor people not being able to access to long studies.

The problem is poverty, not race.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#174

Post by z9e »

watertom wrote: post #119
neffy wrote: post #10

For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's dysfunctional education funding. Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10 years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny that.

Most poor families don't value education, so it's very hard to get children interested in school when their family actively discourages the involvement. Drugs and crime have destroyed the family structure in all poor neighborhoods. Frankly there is a strong anti-education bent moving through the entire Republican party, educated people hare harder to control.

I was with you until the republicans are anti-education. Can you elaborate?

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#175

Post by the_omegist »

rootusrootus wrote: post #63
phpdragon wrote: post #4

This article says white people are underrepresented in earning science and engineering bachelor degrees. Lol.

The stats on black/white/Asian college achievement makes for an uncomfortable discussion. It's okay to suggest that systemic racism is why black people don't participate in college as much as you'd expect based on their prevalence in society, but it's also okay to say that the reason Asians are over-represented is because culturally they've made it a huge priority to attain as much education as possible. Maybe we sho…

Exactly. The cognitive dissonance must be painful, for some people. Poverty explains part of it but there is a cultural and familial part too. Society isn't responsible for everything.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#176

Post by the_omegist »

Ghjklov wrote: post #105
deogeo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? But according to mappingpoliceviolence.org, unarmed white people are killed by police at twice the rate of unarmed Asians, relative to their share of the population. Japan [1] and China [2,3] are openly ethno-nationalist, and India is even attempting to conduct demographic displacement in Kashmir [4]. Clearly Asians are just as capable of racism. Do you believe immigration into the US turns them all into die-…

I don't understand why you are arguing these points at me. I didn't say anything about whites. Unarmed Asians being killed less by police and Asians being capable of racism doesn't mean Asian Americans are privileged lol. What are you trying to say bro? Just come out and say it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

I am not Asian and don't live in the US but i think you're forcing it a little on the drama.

Sure the first Asians immigrants didn't have it easy. But since the 70s, Asian people benefit from a positive stereotype overall.

In the job or education market, I can't see how you can argue Asian people have it harder than white people.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#177

Post by the_omegist »

klyrs wrote: post #88
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #36

People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do with the incentive. People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of people will try to achieve. For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this…

> People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. Are you referring to the country's history of slavery, segregation and mass incarceration? Because I'd agree that "the environment" that black people are raised in is definitely shaped by racism, past and present. That you acknowledge its existence as a footnote makes me think you're underestimating the impact of 400 years of treating people…

Your convenient explanation doesn't explain why more and more black people are accessing to the middle-class and above. Neither does it explain why, in Europe for example, where there was no slavery, you probably see as few black people in STEM as in the US.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#178

Post by whb07 »

Impossible wrote: post #44
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #36

People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do with the incentive. People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of people will try to achieve. For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this…

In computer science, access to computers and being able to freely use, modify and program them is critical. Many Black adults had no or limited computer access as children. Even kids that did need to know that's it's possible to create software , which might require an adult that knows it also, and importantly be allowed to actually do so. Computers are expensive enough that many Black families would keep kids from u…

This is the largest crock of BS one could plausibly spin up to calm their minds from exploring the harsh reality.

I worked for a bit with a Cuban immigrant who studied CS to a high level (post bachelors) without a computer. As in the university and the whole of society didn't have access to computers because you know....communism. He correctly retorted at my shock of "how can you do CS without a computer" question to say the least.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#179

Post by the_omegist »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #121
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #2

Why are there so few white people in pro basketball?

Pro sports are (nowadays) highly specialized, highly optimized professions, where one millisecond counts. Whether it be though underlying genetic predisposition, or social opportunities/incentives (both discussed in other replies), it is not unlikely that one identifiable section of the population would have inherent advantages. STEM (or similar endeavors) are no such thing and never will be. Progress in these fields…

There is no good reason why any part of humanity should be under-represented in these undertakings.

So for you culture has no impact on an individual? Why should a particular field of human activities represent equally all the subsets of human groups?

Individuals are part of groups and groups have their inner dynamics and features.

Why are they more male chefs with 4 Michelin stars? Should there be an equal representation of women? No.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#180

Post by whb07 »

linguae wrote: post #155

Note: I'm an African-American man who works in Silicon Valley as a researcher in an AI lab. I believe there are a number of reasons why there are so few African-Americans in STEM. 1. Many of us grew up in low-income households that don't have the same amount of resources to devote to education that higher-income households do. Many of us also grew up in households where the parents don't have college degrees. Roughly…

Interestingly, you should read up on Thomas Sowell's work and books. There are also plenty of videos on Youtube where you can get some distillation of his work.

Here are some of his "controversial" views:

1. Reduce the incentive to destroy the family unit by providing large benefits to single parents

2. School choice

For the first one, even the leftist economists don't dispute the distortions caused by these transfers. As for point 2, they'll always shriek about things even though it makes sense to tie the child to the money and not the money to the school. Parents will always suss out the better option and will send their child to a better school.

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