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George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

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Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#441

Post by jansan »

alkonaut wrote: post #366

Some ideas: - Less immunity, and discharge without pension for blatant violations, for example being caught on camera hiding a badge, or deliberately bumping into someone to be able to argue that they were "assaulted". - Longer police traning. A 6-12months is how long you should train to be an unarmed mall security guy. Two or three years for a policeman seems like a minimum if you want qualified officers. - Federal…

In Germany there is a job called "Bäckereifachverkäuferin", which basically is a person specially trained to sell bread at a bakery. The training takes 3 years. This is not a joke.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#442

Post by take_a_breath »

raxxorrax wrote: post #430
boomboomsubban wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A department is a group, one that they voluntarily joined.

The comment accused the police as a whole for inciting protest. In this case a police officer probably failed his duties and the police gets accused as a whole. You should accuse government, it would be more believable.

Do the police not like being profiled? Maybe they can take their own advice.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#443

Post by koheripbal »

fnord123 wrote: post #322
_yt0l wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are ~10 million arrests per year in the US. That google doc includes non-US cases as well (but is also limited by what’s caught on camera). Still, 0.0007% of arrests leading to a case like this doesn’t seem as horrible as the raw total in isolation.

There is one UK example which is actually a counter example where the police allowed a statue to be destroyed instead of intervening and creating a potentially dangerous altercation.

So they allowed a mob to circumvent the legislative/democratic process of monument removal and it's an example of a "good" action?

Mobs are not the law.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#444

Post by hwillis »

alkonaut wrote: post #366

Some ideas: - Less immunity, and discharge without pension for blatant violations, for example being caught on camera hiding a badge, or deliberately bumping into someone to be able to argue that they were "assaulted". - Longer police traning. A 6-12months is how long you should train to be an unarmed mall security guy. Two or three years for a policeman seems like a minimum if you want qualified officers. - Federal…

All great, but the problem with police is the same reason we don't use the military as our law enforcement agency. If all you have is a hammer, everything becomes a nail.

-Traffic cops, patrolmen, and escort/guard details do not need to carry guns. They should not be pulling people over to fish for reasons to search and detain, they should not be arresting people. It's simply not necessary, and we should not use the same people that do SWAT raids for everyday things.

Aside from mass shootings and hostage situations, there are very situations in which shooting is reasonable. Let the criminals get away with the diamonds- imagine you're on the highway when a UPS truck flies past you and the air is suddenly filled with bullets. You're terrified; any one of those could end your life. Then you realize the police are the ones endangering you. Police should be trying to get to safety and get others to safety when guns are fired.

Dominance and submission have zero place in policing and should be legally punishable. The whole concept assumes that criminality is a single entity that will stop doing crimes if the police are dominant enough. It's ludicrous; the police should never be using law as a weapon.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#445

Post by hwillis »

growlist wrote: post #426

Is it true that black on black violence kills massively greater numbers than the police?

One-third of all Americans killed by strangers are killed by police. If you are black, you're more likely to be killed by a police officer than someone whos name you don't know.

https://granta.com/violence-in-blue/

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#446

Post by harry8 »

luckylion wrote: post #360
harry8 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rationale for Brazil was explicitly the same one in the dead comment. But yeah, that's pretty radical what you're saying too. Maybe it's fair that you should only compare the richest nation on earth with much poorer developing nations with a short track record of democracy. Not sure I'd agree.

> Not sure I'd agree. Why? Income inequality is correlated with crime rate, why wouldn't you use that to find comparable countries? Seems useful to me, similarly to comparing diabetes rates in countries with similar levels of obesity, not based on average hair color or amount of trees per square mile. > the richest nation on earth You'll need to define what "richest" means, I guess. The highest GDP? Largest military…

The USA can /afford/ to be better. Comparison with other wealthy nations seems to me to be the right benchmark.

I mean the richest nation on earth bar none. The amount of wealth in the nation. Literally that. The USA cannot plead poverty as an excuse for why anything is worse there than any other nation. Do you see it now?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#447

Post by [deleted] »

camillomiller wrote: post #340
jagrsw wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in EU (where, generally, the police is trained to minimize-harm, rather than take-control-by-all-means), and I feel a bit the same about this list; a sizeable share of those videos show regular-ish riot control techniques IMO (pushing the crowd down the street etc.). Then, many show police overreaction or outright brutality. But, then, why mix all of those in one big list and call them simply 'brutality'? As m…

I live in Berlin. Police gets indicted for drawing a gun, let alone use it. And that’s the way it should be. Not all incidents are the same, but so is the feeling of being above any law that Us police officers enjoy and enforce

[deleted]

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#448

Post by luckylion »

jpttsn wrote: post #431
luckylion wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that the US would need to have a violent society to be a military super power. China is on its way, and so far at least they seem to have managed to avoid that, so maybe those things are not related.

The point is that the study participants interact; it’s misleading to compare nations by the stat. The extent to which China is a military superpower interplays with other participants.

> The point is that the study participants interact; it’s misleading to compare nations by the stat.

So what though? Do European countries like the UK (that are usually with the US when it's time to bomb somebody in the Middle East) outsource their domestic violence?

Really, you need to provide some evidence for "we have less crime, less murders, less police violence because the US has more". "The US has more income inequality because it has to fight wars for the European countries" doesn't follow either, so please don't.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#449

Post by gwd »

vegai_ wrote: post #418
gwd wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, are you suggesting that the riots are peaceful? So apparently you haven't watched any of the videos, huh? Guess what? The problem is that police are frequently "on edge" in their normal jobs, and as a result innocent people are seriously injured or die . And worse, police are "on edge" far more around blacks than whites, meaning far more blacks are injured by police than whites. It doesn't matter what the cau…

>So apparently you haven't watched any of the videos, huh? Yes, I watched a few from this link, and that admittedly small sample didn't show a single peaceful protester being abused by cops. I suppose you watched more of them? >Guess what? The problem is that police are frequently "on edge" in their normal jobs, and as a result innocent people are seriously injured or die. And worse, police are "on edge" far more aro…

> Yes, I watched a few from this link, and that admittedly small sample didn't show a single peaceful protester being abused by cops.

TGD #1 shows a woman standing with a sign being run over by a horse. That's absolutely peaceful.

TGD #2 shows a woman who was walking backwards in front of a police officer being shoved so hard she flies several meters back and hits her head on the curb. She was in the officer's face, but she certainly wasn't doing anything close to rioting.

I'll watch more later, but so far that's 2/2 at the top of the list showing peaceful protesters being abused.

> Could there be a reason for some of that that is not linked to racism? Are only white policemen more on-edge around black people?

Depends on what you mean by "racism". There was a series of studies a few years ago that put people in classic "shoot / no shoot" scenarios that police are trained on (i.e., you go through a scenario and have to shoot someone before they shoot you, but only if there's actually a gun). They randomly changed the color of the skin of the people involved. Civilians shot far more blacks than whites in "no-shoot" scenarios. Police shot about the same, but there was a longer delay: meaning, their impulse was to shoot blacks faster, but their training allowed a secondary impulse to come in and moderate the first one. (Sorry I can't find a link just now.)

But there are a host of other issues as well.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#450

Post by piva00 »

Shish2k wrote: post #411
dtech wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, 1984 has a much higher cultural impact and awareness than ATLA. The show isn't that well known outside of current 20-30 year olds.

> 1984 has a much higher cultural impact and awareness than ATLA My anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise, but I’d love some real data - how are you measuring that?

Me too as my anecdotal evidence is completely opposite of you, neither myself or anyone I know would get a reference to ATLA, I vaguely know about it because of the anime being broadcasted in some channel.

These are all late 20s, early 30s people, Brazilians, Scandinavians, Germans, Dutch and so on, 1984 would immediately be known by most, quite a few have read it, none (even if they know about ATLA, what many don't) would get the reference.

Interesting I can cite a conversation I had not long ago with them to act as anecdotal data, I'm really interested to see what is the split here.

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