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Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

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Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t?

We are, very poorly. With rampant piracy of books (e.g., ruslib), royalties have become quite reduced that would traditionally compensate for low up front payment from publishers. I’d blame publishers for paying so poorly, but the bulk of my irritation goes to entitled consumers who have decided that regardless of the time and effort required to create something, they deserve it for free.

What I think I deserve for free is the ability to decide whether a book is worth the price or not. This is simple in a bookstore, but when I’m online the default seems to be that I have to shell out to even take a look.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#62
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (or, more practically, that authors continue to author books instead of deciding to go work at a tech company or something) Have you done or read research to suggest this is something to worry about? There are other concerns certainly. But I have trouble understanding how someone who has ever visited Wikipedia or visited github could even ask this question. It sure sounds like a conceptual anachronism to me. (Thoug…

I think if you talked to most authors and asked "would you still do this if it were unpaid" you'd get almost entirely "no"s. Do you expect otherwise?

If you asked most software engineers if they'd code if it were unpaid, you'd also get mostly "no"s. And yet FOSS carries on. There are some people who simply need to create.

And yes, some FOSS is subsidized by companies who pay their engineers to contribute, but there are also people who contribute on their own time.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#63
post #21

The Internet Archive is so incredibly important. There’s a lot of different views about the purpose of life or lack thereof, but for all except a few beliefs, having access to past writings is very important. Humanity is only at the very beginning of its existence. The success or failure of projects like the Internet Archive will drastically change our future. If you think the loss of the Internet Archive won’t signi…

> the IA was shut down because its leadership decided to be philanthropic during a period of human history that lacked freedom of information Philanthropic by massively infringing on copyright. Giving away something you own and have a right to give away is one thing. But critics of the emergency library allege that because the IA doesn't own the copyright to these books, they don't get to make and lend unlimited copi…

I don’t think they actually make more copies? They just allow multiple people to look at the same copy at the same time?

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#64
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an author, and from my perspective, CDL seems like a reasonable way (if not the most reasonable way) to apply the first sale doctrine in the digital age. Publishers would prefer to instead license ebooks and pretend first sale doesn't apply at all for digital books. I understand why that irritates a lot of people. The Internet Archive, on the flip side, is pretending that copyright infringement doesn't apply duri…

I can agree that uncontrolled digital lending for all future wouldn't be in the best interest of society under the current economic system, but while the letter of the law might not change during a chrisis, how it is interpreted very well might. After all, the law is but a contract between us and ourselves throught a governing body, nothing is fixed, and nothing is entirely objective. But, more importantly, the chara…

> After all, the law is but a contract between us and ourselves throught a governing body, nothing is fixed, and nothing is entirely objective.

Sure.

But the basic idea of law is that the contract between us now and us in the future is relatively fixed. Otherwise, there is no difference between a system of written law and judges deciding cases at their whims.

> But, more importantly, the characterization of libraries as something that actually hurts publishers and writers, as implied by writing that CDL would hurt publishers "no more" than ordinary lending, is something I feel compelled to oppose.

> ... [bunch of text that does not actually oppose the previous statement]

I think most reasonable people can recognize that:

1. Libraries are a good and useful component of modern society

2. Their lending may economically hurt authors and publishers

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#65
post #58

A big part of the books in NEL are out of print and no electronic versions are available elsewhere, and never will, so had it not been for Internet Archive, it would have been impossible to read these books and many of them had been lost forever. If it's impossible to buy the book, why is NEL a problem for the publishers? Would they rather have that no one ever read the book again?

Because plenty of them aren't out of print.

Publishers may or may not give a shit if you put forward a book in a fashion that does not impact them monetarily. They give a shit if you do. They definitely don't care what the ratio between the two is; they care that the latter is non-zero.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#66
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are, very poorly. With rampant piracy of books (e.g., ruslib), royalties have become quite reduced that would traditionally compensate for low up front payment from publishers. I’d blame publishers for paying so poorly, but the bulk of my irritation goes to entitled consumers who have decided that regardless of the time and effort required to create something, they deserve it for free.

What I think I deserve for free is the ability to decide whether a book is worth the price or not. This is simple in a bookstore, but when I’m online the default seems to be that I have to shell out to even take a look.

100% agree. The death of in-person bookstores has killed that mode of browsing, and I have yet to see a viable replacement when buying online.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#67
What's the best way to help? Is it better to donate to Archive.org, or the EFF?

I know that Brewster Kahle is involved in both, and I imagine that the defence team will be staffed by EFF lawyers. I think both the Internet Archive and EFF are good causes, I just want to know which way will cause less paperwork for them to receive a donation.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#68
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an author, and from my perspective, CDL seems like a reasonable way (if not the most reasonable way) to apply the first sale doctrine in the digital age. Publishers would prefer to instead license ebooks and pretend first sale doesn't apply at all for digital books. I understand why that irritates a lot of people. The Internet Archive, on the flip side, is pretending that copyright infringement doesn't apply duri…

I can agree that uncontrolled digital lending for all future wouldn't be in the best interest of society under the current economic system, but while the letter of the law might not change during a chrisis, how it is interpreted very well might. After all, the law is but a contract between us and ourselves throught a governing body, nothing is fixed, and nothing is entirely objective. But, more importantly, the chara…

> After all, the law is but a contract between us and ourselves throught a governing body, nothing is fixed, and nothing is entirely objective.

Right, and no party has the ability to change that contract unilaterally, crisis or otherwise. You can renegotiate the contract, but the contract as it exists does exist.

Yes, there's an argument that people are in particular need of books now that physical libraries are closed. It's a reasonable argument and well worth suspending the normal rules for, somehow.

But there's also an argument that people are in particular need of being paid for their work now that everything is closed. Any modification by a reasonably-representative governing body would take this into account too and try to avoid actions that put authors in an even more financially precarious position than usual.

Neither side has the moral (or legal) right to make things go entirely the way they want them go to. Publishers don't get the right to say that the doctrine of first sale doesn't apply during a crisis because they need to make money, either.

(One thing we could have done is passed an emergency compulsory/statutory licensing regime for e-books, analogous to the statutory licenses for music, saying that the Archive can give people e-books if they arrange for the rightsholder to be paid a certain small but non-zero royalty for each copy. They could sell the books, they could run a fundraiser, they could work with local libraries who are presumably no longer buying new books quite as much, etc. There's no real mechanical reason that couldn't have been implemented quickly, but it does require some competence from the government. If the underlying problem here is that we don't expect the government to be competent, well... that is a problem, but I'm not sure that saying people can disregard the law at their discretion is the answer.)

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#69
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The publishers do not have a legitimate business and deserve to go out of existence. Copyright is nonsense.

I don't disagree with you in principle, but it's the system we have. So, 1) What's a good way to ensure that authors continue to author books while not dying of exposure (or, more practically, that authors continue to author books instead of deciding to go work at a tech company or something)? 2) How do we implement that system?

> What's a good way to ensure that authors continue to author books while not dying

Authors should be paid for the act of writing, not the sale of the resulting work.

> How do we implement that system?

Crowdfunding and patronage seem to be gaining traction these days.

Re: Temporary National Emergency Library to close 2 weeks early

#70
If companies, including movie companies, don't want their content getting out for free then don't mass market it. Stop advertising it. Don't sell it in every retail store in America and put out displays with the characters. Don't create billboards. Otherwise these companies are trying to psychologically manipulate you and your kids and pay for something before seeing it usually with negative messages about how alcohol, affairs and violence will somehow make your life better and more exciting.
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