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ZFS Removes References to Slavery

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Re: ZFS Removes References to Slavery

#41

I invite people to read about the Chinese Cultural Revolution and the so-called Red Guards. We are getting there. Be very careful what you say and what exact terms you use.

It really feels like we're entering a new dark age. One without context, nuance, or wisdom.

I can only hope we find a way to resolve our differences before our cultural cold war becomes a hot one.

Re: ZFS Removes References to Slavery

#42
post #9

I invite people to read about the Chinese Cultural Revolution and the so-called Red Guards. We are getting there. Be very careful what you say and what exact terms you use.

Because it’s easier to do a PR removing “slave” than to stop buying cheap things made in slave workshops.

Your boycott won't change anything. Is the only avenue of political change that you can see through the lens of individual consumption?

I genuinely don't see boycotts as powerful as others, so maybe I'm missing something here. However, shouldn't all avenues be taken if you're attempting to change something?

Re: ZFS Removes References to Slavery

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a hyperbolic response that it’s hard to actually engage with it; I’m not sure that this is helping the conversation at all.

This is not hyperbolic. That is what is extremely sad, and why I picked the topic I did as suggested reading: One important thing is to understand how these things start and get out of hand. Let's not bury our heads in the sand and refuse to see what is happening.

The reference to the Red Guards is indeed hyperbolic and extremely loaded. You are comparing someone making a technical change to a government sponsored paramilitary organization that murdered thousands of people.

It’s extremely hard to engage with the conversation when your position is that one side, if not stopped, will result in mass scale murder. If I make a good faith argument for this naming change, are you going to accuse me of supporting a proto red band?

Re: ZFS Removes References to Slavery

#44
post #4

Is Linux going to be next? Let's ask Mr Torvalds nicely to remove all master / slave references in the Linux kernel because it is 'offensive'. /s I don't think such a request is practical given the kLOCs of those references which will break other software.

Don't forget git's master / slave references, and even the 'offensive' word 'git'.

https://lore.kernel.org/git/CAOAHyQwyXC1Z3v7BZAC+Bq6JBaM7FvB...

Re: ZFS Removes References to Slavery

#45
post #22

Can these project changing words at least agree on a single word to use? We're going to have 10s of different words representing the same thing that for decades of evolving technology was known as slave. It will make it confusing and difficult to move between technologies.

We already do to some degree: follower, replica, secondary, etc

Re: ZFS Removes References to Slavery

#48

I think this is a good thing. I'm not a fan of removing the master name, because master has more meanings than in the slavery context and its other meanings fit well the metaphor of master in IT. But they have not removed the master term. Only the slave term, which can go away. I will not miss it, it always felt weird to use this metaphor.

Why should we ban the word "slave"; aren't there more people living in slavery now, than ever before in history? Seems like if anything we should be raising awareness about that, not hiding it literally.

Re: ZFS Removes References to Slavery

#49
Yeah, get rid of “slave”. The “master” thing I think is easy to remove too, so might as well, but I don’t think it’s nearly as bad. Think of all the things that are way more closely associated with “master”: MasterClass, masterpiece, Jedi Master, master craftsman, mastery, etc. I don’t think it’s necessary to get rid of all those terms.

Re: ZFS Removes References to Slavery

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not hyperbolic. That is what is extremely sad, and why I picked the topic I did as suggested reading: One important thing is to understand how these things start and get out of hand. Let's not bury our heads in the sand and refuse to see what is happening.

The reference to the Red Guards is indeed hyperbolic and extremely loaded. You are comparing someone making a technical change to a government sponsored paramilitary organization that murdered thousands of people. It’s extremely hard to engage with the conversation when your position is that one side, if not stopped, will result in mass scale murder. If I make a good faith argument for this naming change, are you goi…

I'll let you read about the topic then we can discuss, but do not think that what is happening is as innocuous as a "someone making a technical change". This has already gone far beyond that and we are really already quite close to "public denunciations" or the attacks on statues/the deads, etc. as it happened then.
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