Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 94 posts

Re: GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

#61

Post by [deleted] »

tomxor wrote: post #35
bonzini wrote: post #8

If you read "master branch" and think of slavery, you have reading comprehension issues that won't be fixed by renaming the branch. (I know bitkeeper used master/slave terminology for repositories; that is completely irrelevant to git).

Until you mentioned it, I didn't even realise this was a PC thing. I'm all for improving the rights of minorities, but this behavior of eradicating all trace of references to anything tentatively related to historical racism seems like useless noise at best and dangerously naive at worst... If our society becomes so sensitive that we cannot even utter a word that implies another word which when placed in an entirely…

[deleted]

Re: GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

#62

Post by kylebyproxy »

adjkant wrote: post #14
bonzini wrote: post #8

If you read "master branch" and think of slavery, you have reading comprehension issues that won't be fixed by renaming the branch. (I know bitkeeper used master/slave terminology for repositories; that is completely irrelevant to git).

Given how even distributed systems used to use master/slave frequently, and some still do, and that people don't say "master branch" and typically just say "master", I think it would be surprising for someone to avoid that association if they are educated in computer sincere using those terms (which again many places do). Also, it's not reading comprehension, it's subconscious level associations that people basically…

> that people basically can't avoid

This is the coddling referred to in a sibling comment. What basis do you have for thinking such misconceptions are unavoidable? This is tantamount to saying "people can never change", which flies in the face of all evidence I've seen. It seems to me entirely more likely that most folks simply don't take the time to practice decent cognitive hygiene.

Surely, the parties responsible for relabeling the default branch will see this as tacit admission of guilt on the part of GH and wield it as vindication of their views going forward.

Rather than pushing back on the issue, challenging these people to perform the self-analysis needed to disabuse themselves of faulty logic, decisions like GitHub's only work to foster and perpetuate a distorted world.

Evidently, this is somehow too much of an ask. How did it ever come to pass that it's _everyone else's_ responsibility to kowtow to the lowest common denominator? Why is it verboten to hold them to a higher standard?

Re: GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

#63

Post by bonzini »

adjkant wrote: post #57
bonzini wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything that you name gets a proper noun. If you name your git branch "maint", that proper noun comes from the common noun "maintenance". If you name your git branch "master", that proper noun comes from the adjective "master". > The issue with EEE was not the change itself but the power Microsoft gained by enforcing examples itself Exactly, making things different is effectively a potential lock-in issue for GitH…

And this changes what exactly? Its derivation doesn't change its use as a noun in the common use. Even if it was an adjective, you act as if that magically excludes it from being associated with the master/slave distributed systems reference, but it's still a CS term at the end of the day and I fail to see how there would not be a subconscious association there. > Exactly, making things different is effectively a pot…

A proper noun and a common noun are grammatically different and easily distinguishable. Same for an adjective and a noun. This is why my original comment was specifically about reading comprehension.

I don't believe there's any gain at all to achieve in terms of societal good, therefore any possible damage is going to be greater than zero. I am ready to be called a racist or fascist for this, which would be quite ironic given that my grandparents and great-grandparents had several unpleasant interactions with the Italian fascist party.

Re: GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

#64

Post by kylebyproxy »

bonzini wrote: post #49
adjkant wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All three are used as a noun to me, FWIW. When you say "merge to master", master is a noun. My point above is that it's more uncommon in my experience to fully say "master branch". "Masters degrees" as far as I linguistically understand means "mastery of subject", which is indeed the same language, though perhaps closer to feudal master/subject, which was more ethnic slavery in Europe than the specific iteration in t…

In "Merge to master", "master" is a proper noun, the name that was given to the branch because it is "the master branch" (adjective); just like St. Paul took his name from the adjective "paulus", meaning small. Otherwise, it would be "merge to the master" which I have never heard. It's not a costless change; all documentation would be split between that for "master" and that for "main". The cynic in me sees Embrace,…

I always assumed Git chose "master" as an analogy to audio mastering, thus a hint that the master branch should be the final result of "mixing" other branches. Maybe that's reading too much into it though.

Re: GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

#65

Post by bonzini »

filoeleven wrote: post #59
bonzini wrote: post #8

If you read "master branch" and think of slavery, you have reading comprehension issues that won't be fixed by renaming the branch. (I know bitkeeper used master/slave terminology for repositories; that is completely irrelevant to git).

So your gripe is that people loose the context when its obvious what is meant, yeah?

I see what you did there, but I still cannot understand your question. I am not bothered by common English spelling mistakes, if that's what you were asking.

Re: GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

#66

Post by cczizou »

dingaling wrote: post #52
adjkant wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume this is driven by anger and that the worries here are "coddling" and a "weaker society"? Why can't this simply be "hey, that term has some serious historical baggage and it doesn't sit right with some people, why not change it? As a white person, the term "slave" in distributed systems always made me feel that way. Not as much for master and whitelist/blacklist personally, but I see no harm in trans…

Can you avoid using the term 'triggering' please, it has connotations of shooting people. See how deep this rabbit hole goes...

Slippery slopes on slippery slopes.

Re: GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

#67

Post by cczizou »

adjkant wrote: post #53
dingaling wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you avoid using the term 'triggering' please, it has connotations of shooting people. See how deep this rabbit hole goes...

Linguistic meaning changes all the time without the world burning down, so I'm really curious what danger you think there is in this "rabbit hole". Or do you also oppose using "awful" to be a negative, because if we accept that, how far does the rabbit hole go? Look at how many words we use without these types of issues too! If you're worried about keeping up with a few intentional linguistic changes a year among man…

This is a good point. Language has original meaning and cultural meaning.

Re: GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

#68

Post by cczizou »

jjuhl wrote: post #34

When will all this political correctness and social justice warrior nonsense stop? Just because a word can be used in a way that causes offense, doesn't mean that it's always used that way. Also, people need to relax a bit and not hunt down things that could potentially offend so aggressively. Take it easy, if something offensive was intended you'll probably know from the surrounding context - stop shooting down indi…

It’s always nonsense if you don’t give a fuck.

Re: GitHub wil change default branch name from 'master' to 'main'

#70

Post by cczizou »

verroq wrote: post #11

This is getting really stupid now. Who are these people? At the risk of invoking the slippery slope, they will never be satisfied. Will the silent majority bend over to these extremists on Twitter?

What if we already went down a slippery slope by permitting racist language to permeate culture and making things right requires an equally slippery slope? Could this be the reality we live in now?

I would contend, however, that those who are trying to combat racism and it’s markings in our culture are in more of an uphill climb.

Post reply on HN