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Why are there so few black people in STEM?

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Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#41

Post by pessimizer »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #32
neffy wrote: post #10

For the same reason there are so few poor whites in STEM. America's dysfunctional education funding. Make education funding federal, and have a nationwide push to have small classes and well funded schools for everybody, and this would be fixed in 10 years. As it is, rich districts pay more taxes and get better schools. Funny that.

Why is that the first thing people think of when it comes to explaining black behavior is that they must be poor? Not all black people are poor. Stop it with the stereotypes.

Not all black people are absent from STEM. If we're only going to talk about what all black people are or are not, we're not going to find anything useful.

I feel like I have to mention that I'm a black person here.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#42

Post by pessimizer »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #36

People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do with the incentive. People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of people will try to achieve. For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this…

So it's not racism, it's a lack of positive thinking?

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#43

Post by hardwaregeek »

I wonder how many people on HN have experienced being the only person of their race in the room. In my case I was put into a French public school where I was the only Asian student. It took me a bit to realize why I found that experience so shitty. The language and culture barrier was definitely a factor. But also it just sucks standing out. Sometimes this difference manifests as racism. Sometimes it manifests as simpering. Either way the manifestation reinforces your otherness, your difference.

There are certainly people who can surmount these obstacles and fit in. Who have the charm and charisma to ingratiate themselves into any group in any place. I'm not one of those people. I'm not obligated to be one of those people. Those people are quite rare.

Another point: Perhaps there are fewer Black people in STEM because Black people have more pressing issues. If I were Black and intelligent, I'd probably be interesting in combating larger social issues and not biochemistry. But that's just me.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#44

Post by Impossible »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #36

People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do with the incentive. People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of people will try to achieve. For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this…

In computer science, access to computers and being able to freely use, modify and program them is critical. Many Black adults had no or limited computer access as children. Even kids that did need to know that's it's possible to create software , which might require an adult that knows it also, and importantly be allowed to actually do so. Computers are expensive enough that many Black families would keep kids from using them for fear of breaking them. People do overcome this and go onto become software engineers or take other jobs in tech, but common stories of Black people in tech include early computer access, many had parents that are software engineers even. I fear that the popularity of mobile means many more kids have a computing device, but it's not readily available for programming. This is probably offset by a bigger educational emphasis on learning how to code.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#45

Post by Impossible »

pessimizer wrote: post #42
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #36

People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do with the incentive. People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of people will try to achieve. For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this…

So it's not racism, it's a lack of positive thinking?

As they said, racism is still an issue, but lack of role models and exposure is possibly a bigger issue. Lack of exposure and role models is a symptom of long term systemic racism though, but it doesn't manifest in the same way many people think of racism. Lack of positive thinking isn't quite the right term here, because it assumes that if Black kids just believed in themselves and thought differently it would fix all issues. It goes back to a stereotype that Black culture doesn't value STEM or intelligence, which isn't the case.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#46

Post by Out_of_Characte »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #36

People insinuate this is some sort of racism, but it actually has more to do with the incentive. People tend to be heavily influenced by their environment as they grow up. And if the majority of your peers see X as being "cool", that's what a lot of people will try to achieve. For example, during high school years, the "popular kids" are the jocks who play sports, not a geek who plays with code all day (although this…

Glad to see someone adhering to simple moral philosophy like the presumtion of innocence. These days I see people proclaiming racism and sexism before even considering it could all be coincidental rather than harmfull intent to a specific sex or race.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#47

Post by scarface74 »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #29
nimbius wrote: post #25

I could venture a guess, and its probably why i'll never go from my current job as a diesel mechanic to junior python programmer no matter how badly i want to: criminal record. in the US you can discriminate against employees who have any sort of criminal record. I've served jailtime for possession of cannabis, so that automatically rules me out for a lot of white-collar jobs. Black people tend to get the brunt of po…

So your premise is all Black people have criminal records and that is why they aren't in STEM?

No, but there are plenty of statistics showing that every step of the criminal justice system is biased against minorities from stop and frisk , to traffic stops, to tickets vs warnings, to the “War on Drugs”.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#48

Post by Udik »

CyanLite2 wrote: post #38
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #2

Why are there so few white people in pro basketball?

Maybe because there were 300 years of systemic natural selection in this country called "slavery" where black Americans were bought/sold and bred based solely on their physical attributes?

Do you realize that this is full-fledged, genetics-based racism?

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#49

Post by nimbius »

Udik wrote: post #39
nimbius wrote: post #25

I could venture a guess, and its probably why i'll never go from my current job as a diesel mechanic to junior python programmer no matter how badly i want to: criminal record. in the US you can discriminate against employees who have any sort of criminal record. I've served jailtime for possession of cannabis, so that automatically rules me out for a lot of white-collar jobs. Black people tend to get the brunt of po…

> for possession of cannabis... I got 3 years Sorry if I ask, but how much? Three years seems an awful lot of time. Second, for how long can companies access this kind of record? Isn't it unacceptable to discriminate candidates based on something that has nothing to do with the qualification for a job?

sorry to say, but this kind of question gets asked constantly in every part of my life. Suddenly the interviewer is now your personal arbiter. You're living your sentencing all over again as someone youve never met is now deciding if you get to keep your apartment, buy a car, or get a job. It makes you feel intensely vulnerable and uncomfortable. Its one of the reasons I just dont look for anything anymore.

Re: Why are there so few black people in STEM?

#50

Post by kpsychwave »

At least 3 reasons: stereotype threat (related to race), financial aid and socio-economic pragmatics.

Stereotype threat makes people less likely to engage in psychologically risky feedback loops (bad grades, seeking feedback,...), and many higher STEM courses are riskier in this regard.

Many students are forced to engage in work-study programs or work part-time to get through college. STEM curricula (especially engineering) require dedication and ample time.

Pragmatics, higher education is the most expedient path to escaping poverty for the underserved. So pursuing more vocational fields like nursing, professional stuff over a risky long career in academia seems more fruitful.

If my anecdote adds any value: I went to a somewhat rigorous college where most of my STEM classes were mostly Asian or White and I was the usually the only black student. I experienced the stressors mentioned above, the financial one was especially painful.

12 years later, I wish I had chosen a less time consuming field like liberal arts instead of CS/Eng and had a somewhat enjoyable experience.

One of my close Asian friends (with comparable ability) is now a Math professor. His upper middle class background enabled him to pay for his college, and living expenses in grad school. It’s inconceivable that I could have taken a similar track given the reality constraints of my particular situation.

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