Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#281

Post by wilshipley » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 8:41 PM UTC

_qulr wrote: post #261

wilshipley wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t know that, actually, because I haven’t decided I’ll stay in the App Store. -Wil

Other prominent indie devs have left the App Store: Panic, Bare Bones, Rogue Amoeba. It didn't change the system, and some of them even came back (with special favors from Apple). Perhaps leaving is a (temporary) solution for Wil Shipley, but I would agree with the comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23505370 "The only way we effect change is by ORGANIZING. Right now, Apple can do whatever they want because…

See, my thinking is if enough of us get “special favors” then the special favors will become the norm.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#282

Post by alwillis » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 8:44 PM UTC

the_lucifer wrote: post #226

alwillis wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. For a long time, every time I tried VS Code, I’d go running back to Vim. VS Code has gotten better—it has a higher ceiling than it used to but there are limitations that’ll always be there as long it’s based on Electron. That ceiling also applies to responsiveness and adherence to the macOS UI/UX guidelines. I’m waiting on Panic’s editor that’s in private beta. I don’t see an Electron app matching the fit, fini…

I have been waiting excitedly for Panic's Nova to be honest. Recently my hopes have been lower because there haven't been any updates since March 2019. https://panic.com/nova/march-2019/

They’ve been posting updates on Twitter—@panic.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#283

Post by valuearb » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:03 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #228

valuearb wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is paying developers nearly $30B a year, that dwarfs all these minor complaints fir most developers.

WOW, that is a gross reversal of the sales model. I thought Apple had a warped sense of their role but here you believe that Apple is entitled to 100% of the sales from the developers apps, and are graciously paying the devs 70% of money Apple is entitled to, instead of the reality that Apple is taking 30% of the revenue from Developers for the "privilege" of access to consumers that already paid apple thousands of d…

Apples App Store service does far more than payment processing, and it’s disingenuous to compare them to one.

They host and distribute petabytes of data.

They have a large team hosting and maintain marketing sites for developers in dozens of languages all over the world. Another team develops and distributes mobile apps for store access in all those languages.

They have a large team providing developer support and developer tools.

They have a thousand employees screening app submissions for malware to help ensure customers feel safe buying your apps from the App Store.

They have hundreds of employees marketing the store and promoting developers.

They do all these things for free if you distribute free apps. So he developers have distributed hundreds of terabytes of free apps without paying a dime.

Clearly Apple makes a profit from the App Store, but also clearly it wouldn’t be able to remotely cover these costs at 5%, their break even is closer to 15%.

Developers long for the day some government or court will force Apple to reduce their profit share, but as a iOS developer I warn those devs to be careful for what they wish for.

Apple taking 20% or less is a recipe for developers getting nickel and dimed by Apple. They will start charging hosting and bandwidth fees, submission fees, support subscriptions, etc, etc, and Apples profitability will be back where it was. Free app devs and small developers however will take a huge step backwards.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#284

Post by fsflover » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

lytedev wrote: post #79

jennyyang wrote: post #70

The only way we effect change is by ORGANIZING. Right now, Apple can do whatever they want because they pick us off one by one, and ignore us. Google does exactly the same thing. If we organize as a large enough group, they have to listen. I firmly believe what Apple does is anti-competitive and they need to be regulated firmly by the government. I also think Google and Facebook need to be firmly regulated by the gov…

Is it wrong of me to think "vote with your wallet" and don't buy an iPhone?

It can only work if you buy/develop for GNU/Linux phones.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#285

Post by _qulr » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #283

syshum wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WOW, that is a gross reversal of the sales model. I thought Apple had a warped sense of their role but here you believe that Apple is entitled to 100% of the sales from the developers apps, and are graciously paying the devs 70% of money Apple is entitled to, instead of the reality that Apple is taking 30% of the revenue from Developers for the "privilege" of access to consumers that already paid apple thousands of d…

Apples App Store service does far more than payment processing, and it’s disingenuous to compare them to one. They host and distribute petabytes of data. They have a large team hosting and maintain marketing sites for developers in dozens of languages all over the world. Another team develops and distributes mobile apps for store access in all those languages. They have a large team providing developer support and de…

Oh dear lord. Hosting and data are so incredibly cheap. I have my own web site that hosts vastly more data than my App Store listing, and it only costs around $10 per month. Moreover, there are other places on the web where you can host apps and data for free: Github for example.

The App Store is also FULL of scamware. As an iOS developer yourself, you should know that App Review is a complete joke. The point of App Review is actually to protect Apple's "intellectual property" more than anything. It's not to protect the users. We know that App Review only has time to spend a few minutes at most on each submission.

I've contacted App Store "support" several times; it's slow, crappy, probably low paid. Mostly canned responses that show only limited reading comprehension abilities.

As for "free" (to download) apps, everyone still has to pay the $100 per year developer program fee, and free apps still have to compete against iOS App Store Search Ads of other developers, so clearly Search Ads are a way of Apple generating revenue even from those.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#286

Post by glandium » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 2:38 AM UTC

sixothree wrote: post #12

gonehome wrote: post #2

Even as just an app store user I find the ads for competitors extremely obnoxious. Search "Overcast" -> top ad is some crappy competitor (not even a good real competitor, but usually some sort of near-scam). It makes me think less of the competitor and Apple every time I see it, it also seems completely unnecessary. I obviously want the app I searched for. It seems like a feature entirely designed to trick old people…

I'm sick of this. I'm so, so sick of this. I swear every time this happens, I think "oh, there is no app by that name" and then I have to double check make sure I really used the right search term and that the result is actually a first party app. If I were searching for a genre such as "podcast" or "camera" app, I understand seeing paid ads. But when I search for a specific name, I see absolutely no reason whatsoeve…

Like when you search Firefox and see an ad for Brave? (not hypothetical, seen it on the Play Store)

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#287

Post by on_and_off » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 4:05 AM UTC

wilshipley wrote: post #280

on_and_off wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for everyone / my next app is an interior design / home control app. That's a good point but really not "for everyone". Agreed that for a one shot app like this, pay once is the model that works. Although one could argue that you still held the customer data captive as soon as they get a new phone and the app is no longer compatible.

Sorry, “for everyone” was intended to mean, “the flaws I’ve identified hurt Apple, some customers, and some developers” not “100% of customers are hurt by the flaws.” — I’ve spoken with an Apple SVP about the compatibility issue and it's huge, you’re right. My suggestion to them at the time was to boot apps out of the app store that don’t stay up-to-date. But there’s a gap I can’t solve, which is Apple doesn’t want u…

I think we agree :) More to the point I believe that both models are necessary in a perfect world .. but not sure they will happen.

I too also have way too many mac steam games ... from the very brief period when gaming on a mac was thing. I haven't updated my personal MBP yet but I will have to bite the bullet sooner or later.

Fortunately I have moved on to consoles.. I better not update my mbp and look at my list of compatible games.

There could be another way though, looks like windows 10 still supports 32 bits software via WOW64 (32 bits emulator). In general the one good thing I can say about windows is that it managed to stay retro compatible with pretty much all the previous versions.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#288

Post by tonyedgecombe » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 8:23 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #278

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charging for upgrades creates perverse incentives as well, Adobe before they switched to subscriptions was a good example of that. Every new release had a ton of features to encourage people to pay for the upgrade. Few of these features were of much value. At least with a subscription you are incentivised to keep existing users happy.

> Few of these features were of much value. Then why were users upgrading?

The same reason people started buying cars with fins in the fifties. Clever marketing made people think they need to upgrade to the latest and greatest.

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#289

Post by fastball » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 11:39 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #22

fastball wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also worth noting that Steve Jobs' original plan for the iPhone involved making web-apps first class citizens, with access to system notifications, etc.

Push notifications were introduced after the iPhone SDK, weren't they?

Yes?

Re: Every year I fill out this survey from Apple, for Apple developers

#290

Post by jaclaz » Sun, Jun 14, 2020, 3:17 PM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #283

syshum wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WOW, that is a gross reversal of the sales model. I thought Apple had a warped sense of their role but here you believe that Apple is entitled to 100% of the sales from the developers apps, and are graciously paying the devs 70% of money Apple is entitled to, instead of the reality that Apple is taking 30% of the revenue from Developers for the "privilege" of access to consumers that already paid apple thousands of d…

Apples App Store service does far more than payment processing, and it’s disingenuous to compare them to one. They host and distribute petabytes of data. They have a large team hosting and maintain marketing sites for developers in dozens of languages all over the world. Another team develops and distributes mobile apps for store access in all those languages. They have a large team providing developer support and de…

>Clearly Apple makes a profit from the App Store, but also clearly it wouldn’t be able to remotely cover these costs at 5%, their break even is closer to 15%.

So, in their simplicity, they only apply a mere 100% markup on costs, if I get this right.