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Julian Assange in Limbo

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Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#91

Post by netsharc »

phkahler wrote: post #54
asjw wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> flight to asylum in Russia. Ironically Snowden tweets about freedom of information from Russia, where Putin literally kills journalists

Snowden is like a thorn in the side to some people in the US government. Putin probably like him right where he is.

Sadly Snowden is in a position where Putin can use him for a trade. One possible scenario I thought is Trump getting desperate and asking Putin for Snowden to be extradited so Trump can rah rah about being the man that got "the traitor". Meanwhile Putin would get whatever it is Putin wants from this trade, because as we know Trump is an unparalleled genius in deals...

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#92

Post by dane-pgp »

class4behavior wrote: post #41

While I don't really like JA, tend not to trust him, and disagree with a lot of his choices, it is unquestionable that he suffered a lot of injustice; while the public turned on him and continues to fall for simplified coverage of all matters involving him. The latest example, I believe, was the report on his life at the embassy and how he received the email archive in 2016. [1] is the popular CNN version, while a we…

> the ECHR or CJEU—I don't remember which one—ruled that you can't sentence a person to prison forever

I believe you are referring to rulings by the ECtHR[1]. In fact it was determined that the situation in the UK was compliant with the Convention because prisoners have the possibility of applying to the Home Secretary for compassionate release. (This mitigates the concern that, for example, someone could end up in prison for 100 years while society changed around them such that the original sentence became seen to be unjust, but the prisoner felt they had no prospect of having their situation changed).

As for how this affects Assange's extradition, it is already the case that the US must promise not to execute him before the UK will hand him over, so they could perhaps also promise to review his sentence after 25 years if he is imprisoned for that long. (For reference, he turns 50 next year).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_England_a...

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#93

Post by LMYahooTFY »

jedberg wrote: post #35
AndrewBissell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your interpretation of the legal outcome for journalists who publish leaks does not line up with any kind of real jurisprudence, at least not in the U.S. The government is not even making this kind of argument in Assange's own case.

My understanding is that shield laws are different in every state, but the US doesn't have any federal shield laws. Since Assange wasn't in a state when he made the leaks, he wouldn't be protected by state laws. I also understand that no journalist has ever been successfully prosecuted, but no case has ever gone to the Supreme Court about it either. My understanding about the Assange case in particular is that they a…

I think this seems to be a large crux of the entire phenomenon: How to classify Wikileaks, and similar platforms. It's not focused on enough IMO, but part of the defence of Wikileaks I typically hear is that as a result of their persecution and prosecution, there are serious journalistic freedoms under threat.

It seems that Wikileaks and the like do not neatly fit under previous classifications we may have. They certainly don't fit the legal ones, as those seem to mostly cut populations into free speech for citizens and foreign spies.

On a related note, off the top of my head I do recall that at least a few of the lawyers and journalists who were involved with Wikileaks, and Edward Snowden, were apparently advised to go into political exile. I think at least some of them did return last I heard.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#94

Post by dependenttypes »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #68
sneak wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was never charged with rape, and neither of the women who were involved in those cases ever accused him of rape. I encourage you to read their own words.

In case you're not aware, having sex with someone outside the terms they consented to (use of an intact condom, awake and present) is rape. Even if the person who experienced it doesn't explicitly say so.

> In case you're not aware, having sex with someone outside the terms they consented to (use of an intact condom, awake and present) is rape

Not true at least in California. Even then though, would you consider someone who has sex with his girlfriend under the terms that he will not cheat on her a rapist if he ends up cheating on her?

I think that you undermining the meaning of rape if you use it for something like that.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#95

Post by dependenttypes »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #58
runawaybottle wrote: post #13

I forget. Anyone know why we’re treating Julian Assange like the worst criminal that ever existed? “ Those two shootings were a thousand times repeated, though the reports were rare in admitting that the victims were civilians. More usually, the dead were automatically identified as ‘terrorists’ caught in the act, regardless of evidence to the contrary. ” Here’s an argument against Leetcode. There are real patterns i…

He’s not the worst criminal that ever existed. He’s also not the best whistleblower that ever existed. He’s a guy who helped expose things that were important to know about, who’s also a narcissist and very probably a rapist. He doesn’t deserve to be punished inappropriately for exposing what he exposed, he doesn’t deserve to be exonerated for the actual crimes he committed, and he doesn’t deserve to be treated as a…

> who’s also a narcissist

What makes you think that? Even if he is though, so what?

> he doesn’t deserve to be exonerated for the actual crimes he committed

Certainly, although I think that the 8 years that he spent in the embassy are more than enough of a punishment for the condom crime.

> and he doesn’t deserve to be treated as a hero for accepting a role as an agent of weaponized information for a global fascist movement

Please explain what you think by this. Are you implying that he should not have leaked the Clinton emails?

> who did one good thing

He leaked more than one "thing".

> did at least one bad thing

Again, are you referring to the Clinton emails?

> questionable motives

Why should his motives matter?

> and is otherwise just a guy

Just like everyone else, including heroes.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#96

Post by throwtruthaway2 »

dang wrote: post #70
throwtruthaway wrote: post #21

Article doesn't even cover recent findings of extensive spying during his stay in the embassy, it's close to a white washing. Meanwhile HN intelligencia will bury this off the front page and vote brigading will allow critical voices to raise u To the top and flag those critical. Discussion here is impossible. Autodead comments, like I said, impossible to have a fair open discussion here.

If you didn't routinely break the site guidelines you'd find it easy enough to participate. Note that this thread is on the front page.

its amazing the audacity you have and the constant lying that is done by the moderation team.

'autodead' comments is clearly a way to stifle voices that don't tow the acceptable narrative.

I've had and seen accounts banned that never violated any guidelines -- once an account was deleted that posted 'generic' comments -- what does that even mean? again lies.

Some commenters get special privileges, are allowed to post 20, 30, 40 times, are allowed to control who is seen and not seen.

but go ahead and pat yourself on the back that this comment above gets to stick around for a few hours, nearly invisible, and pat yourself again that this thread stayed on the front page for a few hours.

Meanwhile, HN purposely removed snowden threads, assange threads, and allowed clearly government astro turfers to control discussions. While voices of reason are auto dead or removed, or flagged into non existence. HN has no clear guidelines, and is run by favoritism and allows token dissent, but not serious real, honest and open discussion.

You are a complusive liar who uses your position of power to stifle dissent. Congratulations on supporting the empire's propaganda.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#97

Post by dependenttypes »

Retric wrote: post #32
jedberg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's illegal to keep something you know was stolen.

That applies to physical objects not information. One odd corner case in the US it’s legal to buy bootlegs but not make them.

This is because bootlegs are not stolen.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#98

Post by dependenttypes »

jedberg wrote: post #26
Retric wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is getting sent files illegal? Last I checked the only protection on classified information was for people that had a clearance at some point. Which is why journalists can generally publish classified information.

It's illegal to keep something you know was stolen.

You can't steal digital data unless if you copy them for yourself and delete any other copies afterwards.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#99

Post by dependenttypes »

iaw wrote: post #88
class4behavior wrote: post #41

While I don't really like JA, tend not to trust him, and disagree with a lot of his choices, it is unquestionable that he suffered a lot of injustice; while the public turned on him and continues to fall for simplified coverage of all matters involving him. The latest example, I believe, was the report on his life at the embassy and how he received the email archive in 2016. [1] is the popular CNN version, while a we…

I 'turned on him' because as I learned more about him I trusted his motives less. If I thought his motives were pure, I would give him more slack but I think he has nefarious motives based on his indiscriminate releases. 150 years sounds right for a spy at his stature without a state sponsor, good thing we aren't at war or there may be an argument to kill him.

If anything his "indiscriminate releases" shows that his motive was pure, compared with releasing only what you like.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#100

Post by jsf01 »

dang wrote: post #70
throwtruthaway wrote: post #21

Article doesn't even cover recent findings of extensive spying during his stay in the embassy, it's close to a white washing. Meanwhile HN intelligencia will bury this off the front page and vote brigading will allow critical voices to raise u To the top and flag those critical. Discussion here is impossible. Autodead comments, like I said, impossible to have a fair open discussion here.

If you didn't routinely break the site guidelines you'd find it easy enough to participate. Note that this thread is on the front page.

Seems common here that many interesting discussions are also controversial and therefore result in a lot of downvotes. It’s a pain to read downvoted comments because of the low contrast despite them sometimes being insightful yet unpopular. I also catch myself automatically taking a harsher stance towards grayed out messages before even reading them. I wouldn’t be surprised if many downvotes come in after the initial graying out of a comment, a sort of dogpile based more on herd effects than the content itself. In all, the current voting system doesn’t work well when it comes to controversy. Maybe that’s somewhat appropriate for this community since most tech news isn’t all that controversial. But it’s unfortunate that it’s so damn hard to read unpopular comments on this site. And impossible to reply to them. Are the mods open to changing the grayed-out punishment for downvoted comments to something else?
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