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Julian Assange in Limbo

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Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#61

Post by runawaybottle »

colonelanguz wrote: post #56
deathgrips wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>4 million innocent people murdered in illegal wars This phrase has always bugged me. How do you carry out a 100% legal war? War is by its very nature an uprooting of the normal system where we resolve conflicts in a peaceful and organized fashion.

I am sympathetic to the point that you are making and hate to go all legal-positivist, but an illegal war is a war that isn't legal under international law. Defending your country from an invasion is like the gold standard of legality. It sits in contradistinction to, e.g., wars of aggression, which are what they sound like. To be a legal war where you're not defending against an invasion, it's necessary to have eith…

Without getting too much into international law, which is mostly laughed at, evidently, sometimes I think it’s just better to see some video:

https://youtu.be/1Z3f_p_7OeE

It was very illegal to put it quite frankly.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#62

Post by barry-cotter »

asjw wrote: post #53
fit2rule wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he revealed evidence of one of the worst crimes committed by humanity in the last 100 years? 4 million innocent people murdered in illegal wars is a lot of blood on the hands of the American people. And, we all know how much they hate to be embarrassed by such things ..

> one of the worst crimes committed by humanity in the last 100 years? As much as I oppose to US military politics, I think that in the past 100 years there have been much worse crimes than US wars in the middle east. If I think of the worst criminal of the modern era (post WW2) the first name that comes to mind is Vladimir Putin. For once: he wiped a tenth of the entire Chechen population, it's like if someone order…

> If I think of the worst criminal of the modern era (post WW2) the first name that comes to mind is Vladimir Putin.

Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#63

Post by colonelanguz »

runawaybottle wrote: post #61
colonelanguz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sympathetic to the point that you are making and hate to go all legal-positivist, but an illegal war is a war that isn't legal under international law. Defending your country from an invasion is like the gold standard of legality. It sits in contradistinction to, e.g., wars of aggression, which are what they sound like. To be a legal war where you're not defending against an invasion, it's necessary to have eith…

Without getting too much into international law, which is mostly laughed at, evidently, sometimes I think it’s just better to see some video: https://youtu.be/1Z3f_p_7OeE It was very illegal to put it quite frankly.

100%. Not that this means anything but I'm a JD and my JD girlfriend specializes in international law and we agree it's basically a joke. But hell yeah it was illegal.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#64

Post by sneak »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #58
runawaybottle wrote: post #13

I forget. Anyone know why we’re treating Julian Assange like the worst criminal that ever existed? “ Those two shootings were a thousand times repeated, though the reports were rare in admitting that the victims were civilians. More usually, the dead were automatically identified as ‘terrorists’ caught in the act, regardless of evidence to the contrary. ” Here’s an argument against Leetcode. There are real patterns i…

He’s not the worst criminal that ever existed. He’s also not the best whistleblower that ever existed. He’s a guy who helped expose things that were important to know about, who’s also a narcissist and very probably a rapist. He doesn’t deserve to be punished inappropriately for exposing what he exposed, he doesn’t deserve to be exonerated for the actual crimes he committed, and he doesn’t deserve to be treated as a…

He was never charged with rape, and neither of the women who were involved in those cases ever accused him of rape. I encourage you to read their own words.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#65

Post by eyelidlessness »

sneak wrote: post #64
eyelidlessness wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s not the worst criminal that ever existed. He’s also not the best whistleblower that ever existed. He’s a guy who helped expose things that were important to know about, who’s also a narcissist and very probably a rapist. He doesn’t deserve to be punished inappropriately for exposing what he exposed, he doesn’t deserve to be exonerated for the actual crimes he committed, and he doesn’t deserve to be treated as a…

He was never charged with rape, and neither of the women who were involved in those cases ever accused him of rape. I encourage you to read their own words.

I'm a victim of sexual assault, I know how to read the words and how to read charges.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#66

Post by mnm1 »

Doubl wrote: post #19
jedberg wrote: post #12

> But today Ellsberg is celebrated as the patron saint of whistleblowers while Assange is locked in a cell in London’s Belmarsh maximum security prison for 23 and a half hours a day. Ellsberg was charged with a bunch of crimes too, which would have resulted in 100+ years of jail time. He's considered a good person now because he defended himself and won. It should also be noted that he very much supports Wikileaks. I…

Broadly? I thinks that's a very American centric perspective. About the last system of justice I'd like to find myself at the mercy of outside those in totalitarian countries is the American one. It has earned itself an awful reputation, in Europe, at least. It's such a shame that countries like the UK appear to be behaving like client states of America.

It has earned itself an awful reputation in America too amongst the people who understand it. Unfortunately, most Americans are too stupid to understand it or too hateful to even try.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#67

Post by catalogia »

fit2rule wrote: post #16
runawaybottle wrote: post #13

I forget. Anyone know why we’re treating Julian Assange like the worst criminal that ever existed? “ Those two shootings were a thousand times repeated, though the reports were rare in admitting that the victims were civilians. More usually, the dead were automatically identified as ‘terrorists’ caught in the act, regardless of evidence to the contrary. ” Here’s an argument against Leetcode. There are real patterns i…

Because he revealed evidence of one of the worst crimes committed by humanity in the last 100 years? 4 million innocent people murdered in illegal wars is a lot of blood on the hands of the American people. And, we all know how much they hate to be embarrassed by such things ..

> 4 million innocent people murdered in illegal wars

You've mentioned this number a few times, but I can't find a source for it. Can you point me in the right direction?

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#68

Post by eyelidlessness »

sneak wrote: post #64
eyelidlessness wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s not the worst criminal that ever existed. He’s also not the best whistleblower that ever existed. He’s a guy who helped expose things that were important to know about, who’s also a narcissist and very probably a rapist. He doesn’t deserve to be punished inappropriately for exposing what he exposed, he doesn’t deserve to be exonerated for the actual crimes he committed, and he doesn’t deserve to be treated as a…

He was never charged with rape, and neither of the women who were involved in those cases ever accused him of rape. I encourage you to read their own words.

In case you're not aware, having sex with someone outside the terms they consented to (use of an intact condom, awake and present) is rape. Even if the person who experienced it doesn't explicitly say so.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#69

Post by mnm1 »

harikb wrote: post #33

It should be no surprise that these people might retire from military and join local state police and enjoy killing similarly less fortunate American citizens > helicopter pilots exchange banter about the slaughter in the street below: ‘Ha, ha, I hit them,’ one says. ‘Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards,’ the other says. They have mistaken the camera held by one of the journalists for a rocket-propelled grenade laun…

And these are the scumbags we're supposed to honor, thank, and in the future remember fondly? Memorial and veterans' days should only apply to soldiers who fought in wars against their will (drafted) or had a basis in reality. Last one was WWII. The scumbags who fought in later wars should question their life decisions. Some of them regret it already. Good.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#70

Post by dang »

throwtruthaway wrote: post #21

Article doesn't even cover recent findings of extensive spying during his stay in the embassy, it's close to a white washing. Meanwhile HN intelligencia will bury this off the front page and vote brigading will allow critical voices to raise u To the top and flag those critical. Discussion here is impossible. Autodead comments, like I said, impossible to have a fair open discussion here.

If you didn't routinely break the site guidelines you'd find it easy enough to participate.

Note that this thread is on the front page.

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