Julian Assange in Limbo • Hacker News Board

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#11

Post by upofadown » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 10:52 PM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #7

us0r wrote: post #4

> After long research, his team of 120 counterintelligence officers hadn’t been able to find a single person, among the thousands of American agents and secret sources in Afghanistan and Iraq, who could be shown to have died because of the disclosures. Sounds like the NSA who couldn't point to a single instance of stopping any type of terrorist attack/operation despite collecting anything they could get their hands o…

That's because the CIA and the Department of Defense worked around the clock to prevent that from happening. Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper wrote in his book, "Facts and Fears: Hard Truths from a Life in Intelligence" > After Manning's arrest, Assange seemed intent on dumping as many classified documents onto the internet as he could, as quickly as he could. In my last few months as USD(I) and…

Kind of missing the punch line there. Who did they save through their efforts?

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#12

Post by jedberg » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

> But today Ellsberg is celebrated as the patron saint of whistleblowers while Assange is locked in a cell in London’s Belmarsh maximum security prison for 23 and a half hours a day.

Ellsberg was charged with a bunch of crimes too, which would have resulted in 100+ years of jail time. He's considered a good person now because he defended himself and won. It should also be noted that he very much supports Wikileaks.

It should also be noted a big difference in the cases is that Ellsberg leaked documents he already had legal access to, and was therefore a whistleblower. Assange leaked documents that he had to illegally acquire first (either with help or without, but either way he was in possession of stolen goods). You can't get whistleblower protection for leaking information you didn't have legal access to.

I totally understand why Assange is fighting extradition -- it's highly unlikely he would be treated fairly or get a fair trial. But I doubt he'll ever be broadly considered a hero until he defends himself in court.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#13

Post by runawaybottle » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

I forget.

Anyone know why we’re treating Julian Assange like the worst criminal that ever existed?

“ Those two shootings were a thousand times repeated, though the reports were rare in admitting that the victims were civilians. More usually, the dead were automatically identified as ‘terrorists’ caught in the act, regardless of evidence to the contrary. ”

Here’s an argument against Leetcode. There are real patterns in our work. That quote is a real pattern in law enforcement. Test for the patterns, not how slick someone is in a contrived scenario.

We seem to be stuck in deja vu world. The same problems over and over, everywhere, with an unwillingness to fix or acknowledge it.

Not many body cams existed for those deaths, huh?

Sad, I’ll erase it from my mind and move on for this evening, as usual.

Don’t stick the guy that showed it to us in jail. Don’t be the emperor that killed the messenger.

Goals, I guess.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#14

Post by Natsu » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 11:02 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #12

> But today Ellsberg is celebrated as the patron saint of whistleblowers while Assange is locked in a cell in London’s Belmarsh maximum security prison for 23 and a half hours a day. Ellsberg was charged with a bunch of crimes too, which would have resulted in 100+ years of jail time. He's considered a good person now because he defended himself and won. It should also be noted that he very much supports Wikileaks. I…

I don't think that's quite correct, unless it can be proved that they somehow participated in the actual hacking of some target, they do have legal access to the docs, because receiving such is not illegal.

Otherwise, the entire press to whom such things are leaked should be in jail with them.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#15

Post by fit2rule » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

upofadown wrote: post #11

HenryKissinger wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the CIA and the Department of Defense worked around the clock to prevent that from happening. Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper wrote in his book, "Facts and Fears: Hard Truths from a Life in Intelligence" > After Manning's arrest, Assange seemed intent on dumping as many classified documents onto the internet as he could, as quickly as he could. In my last few months as USD(I) and…

Kind of missing the punch line there. Who did they save through their efforts?

>Who did they save through their efforts?

More important to know than which Americans were 'saved' by the NSA's efforts, is: what are the names of the innocent people murdered by American forces, and why are we being prevented from knowing more about them?

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#16

Post by fit2rule » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 11:05 PM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #13

I forget. Anyone know why we’re treating Julian Assange like the worst criminal that ever existed? “ Those two shootings were a thousand times repeated, though the reports were rare in admitting that the victims were civilians. More usually, the dead were automatically identified as ‘terrorists’ caught in the act, regardless of evidence to the contrary. ” Here’s an argument against Leetcode. There are real patterns i…

Because he revealed evidence of one of the worst crimes committed by humanity in the last 100 years?

4 million innocent people murdered in illegal wars is a lot of blood on the hands of the American people. And, we all know how much they hate to be embarrassed by such things ..

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#17

Post by asjw » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 11:06 PM UTC

class4behavior wrote: post #8

vkou wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he being accused of disclosing information that got someone killed? Or of assisting a hacker? If he's not accused of doing the first, then this is hardly relevant to his case.

This is most certainly relevant. It may not be proof, but it's notable evidence; and not the only one.

If I put someone's life in danger and then that person doesn't die it's still a crime.

We are in an historical moment when transmitting the COVID-19 to someone else could cost you lifetime jail, I don't think they will go easy on revealing the secret identities of operatives.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#18

Post by MiroF » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #12

> But today Ellsberg is celebrated as the patron saint of whistleblowers while Assange is locked in a cell in London’s Belmarsh maximum security prison for 23 and a half hours a day. Ellsberg was charged with a bunch of crimes too, which would have resulted in 100+ years of jail time. He's considered a good person now because he defended himself and won. It should also be noted that he very much supports Wikileaks. I…

> Assange leaked documents that he had to illegally acquire first (either with help or without, but either way he was in possession of stolen goods). You can't get whistleblower protection for leaking information you didn't have legal access to.

Should we charge the journalists who distributed Snowden's leaks as well?

This seems like making a distinction to draw a line between the two, but I am missing the explanation for why this distinction has moral import.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#19

Post by Doubl » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #12

> But today Ellsberg is celebrated as the patron saint of whistleblowers while Assange is locked in a cell in London’s Belmarsh maximum security prison for 23 and a half hours a day. Ellsberg was charged with a bunch of crimes too, which would have resulted in 100+ years of jail time. He's considered a good person now because he defended himself and won. It should also be noted that he very much supports Wikileaks. I…

Broadly? I thinks that's a very American centric perspective. About the last system of justice I'd like to find myself at the mercy of outside those in totalitarian countries is the American one. It has earned itself an awful reputation, in Europe, at least. It's such a shame that countries like the UK appear to be behaving like client states of America.

Re: Julian Assange in Limbo

#20

Post by fckmodsmodssck » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

Article doesn't even cover recent findings of extensive spying during his stay in the embassy, it's close to a white washing.

Meanwhile HN intelligencia will bury this off the front page and vote brigading will allow critical voices to raise u To the top and flag those critical. Discussion here is impossible.